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Retailers supporting the +18 rule

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Old March 29th, 2006, 09:24   #1
Droc
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Retailers supporting the +18 rule

Its been discussed before, but it seems we keep getting underagers on this forum who appear to be in the 14-16 year old range and they already have guns.
You all see it, "how do I upgrade my new aug"....wtf, you had like 6 threads trashed because your like...14 but you "have" and AEG already.
Retails don't seem to have any +18 rules set. All our work to keep things +18 here are usless if retails go and sell them guns anyways.

Personally, at the risk of slowing sales for retailers, I think its better for airsoft in general if the retails work with the ASC age verification system to sell guns, or should have some decent system that they use.

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Old March 29th, 2006, 09:30   #2
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That would do, for direct sales to minors, but I believe most sales would be through a parent anyway, which could get around the system. Would you start having to screen the ones you're verifying?

I believe it could be done, but with screening you're also finding other problems... Though I'm not sure any good parent would lie if you ask them if they plan to give the gun to a minor. Though, it's the good parents that have the responsible kids, it's the bad parents that have the irresponsible kids.

May have to go through a screening of irresponsible 18+ then too.

Though, that would stop direct sales, when the parent isn't involved. That would be a good thing, seeing those kids were most likely to do something stupid with it.

That's my opinion...
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Old March 29th, 2006, 10:00   #3
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I got to witness exactly what kid is talking about at a local sports store.
Mom and two ~12 year old kids (one her's the other one just along for the ride) walk by the "softair" section of the store and immediately the "I want one mommy!" shouts start up. (Did I mention that these people were the type that spoil their kids because they have more money than they know what to do with?)
Anyways, the kid starts listing off all the stuff he wants, he rattles off about $500 of stuff for him and his buddy, his mom relents eventually and starts saying "OK you can have that what else do you need?" The really retarded thing is that the kid actually asks for a mask/eye protection and she says "No, you've got enough stuff, you're not getting a mask." I almost walked up to the lady and smacked her in the back of the head.
Long story short, we'd have a heck of a time weeding out that kind of stupidity/lackadaisical attitude.
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Old March 29th, 2006, 11:06   #4
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^Sounds like the same type of parents who'd try to ban the sport after their kids puts their own eye out.

I know for a fact SpecArms has a strict age verification system, to the point where it'd probably discourage irresponsible parents.
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Old March 29th, 2006, 12:05   #5
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The fact is there are plenty of parents and 18+ verified people out there who will and do lie. So even if you do ask every single person if they are buying for a minor, you still dont know 100% for sure.

A while ago I was talking to a friend who was complaining that she had welts all over her back. when I asked her about how it happened, she said her guy friend had shot her in the back with an airsoft shotgun in his living room from only a few feet away. I later found out that this kid, who was still only 14 at the time, had gotten his dad to go out and buy him an M3 shorty so he could shoot squirrels in the backyard. He then broke the shorty because he was racking on it too hard and tried to take it back for a full refund even though he had had it for at least a good six months already.

Just a story I thought I'd bitch about...
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Old March 29th, 2006, 12:49   #6
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I think for the reseller's incentives to stop selling to minors would be potential lawsuits. I mean even Canadian Tire requires 18+ to buy their airguns when they first carried it, you have to show proof of age and register your name into their system. (Don't know if that is still the case) But there must be reasons why they take such actions, and I think airsoft retailers should follow for the same reasons.

But when you look at retailers, I doubt many 14 yrs old kid have a credit card to make these expensive orders online, so probably paid for by the parents. Even if that's the case, parents might take responsibility of their kids' action, but sometimes I don't think parents understand the magnitude of the damage a simple AEG can do if there aren't safe precautions taken. So really, until the parents KNOW what an AEG is and what it can potentially do, it'll be hard preventing kids coming in possession of airsoft.

It'd be nice to educate the general public about airsoft in effort to get them out of the hands of minors and probably does the sport a lot more good in the long run. But somehow I doubt shows like "This hour has 22 minutes" will actually CARE about it until something big goes down. (sad. I know)
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Old March 29th, 2006, 13:04   #7
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I'm actually ok with having some minors owning airsoft as long as parents approve because I've had airsoft guns since I was 10 all from my mom and dad. I got my NBB Sig Sauger when I was 12 from my dad. I didn't feel the need to go and shoot people back then and I don't feel the need to randomly hunt down people now. I mean you have airsoft games you don't need to live real life grand theft auto everyday...

When I bought my airsoft guns a few months ago I was never checked for my age though. Retailers are in it for the money...I mean the smoke shop near my house sells cigarettes to grade 10 kids...
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Old March 29th, 2006, 13:10   #8
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Pmall for example is like that, except they do kind of discourage them with their incredibly ridiculous high prices. Some kid I know paid $300 for a TM M92F EBB from them.
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Old March 29th, 2006, 13:14   #9
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The solution is simple - people have to vote with their dollar.

If you know of a case where a retailer has sold to a minor and you don't agree with it, show some backbone and take your business elsewhere. Not only that, inform the particular retailer of your stance, that you're not going to do business with them etc.

It may mean that you have to wait a week or two longer for that shiney new 226 or M4, but you'll be able to sleep at night.

I know of concrete cases where a retailer has sold to a minor, or sold to a parent knowing full well where the gbb/aeg will end up, and I have done the above and either import my own accessories or buy from retailers that are honorable.
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Old March 29th, 2006, 13:18   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanhchan
I'm actually ok with having some minors owning airsoft as long as parents approve because I've had airsoft guns since I was 10 all from my mom and dad. I got my NBB Sig Sauger when I was 12 from my dad. I didn't feel the need to go and shoot people back then and I don't feel the need to randomly hunt down people now. I mean you have airsoft games you don't need to live real life grand theft auto everyday...

When I bought my airsoft guns a few months ago I was never checked for my age though. Retailers are in it for the money...I mean the smoke shop near my house sells cigarettes to grade 10 kids...
I completly agree. Out of the 13 or so guns i've purchased in the past 2 years, I have only been asked once to get my dad to speak with the seller before we completed the transaction (just to verify that I was allowed to buy them and stuff)...and actually that wasnt even for a retailer that was for a seller right here on ASC. (before the buy sell rule came into effect) I do believe retailers are in it for the money, and I think airsoft is starting to attract alot more attention from 14-17 range. Fact is, its not too hard to obtain airsoft guns, but its up to the clubs to use there own discretion about who can come play and who cannot.

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Old March 29th, 2006, 13:18   #11
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I've gotten by many retailers (while I was 16-17, now I am 17), most of above listed. Although I did conduct myself fairly maturely (not to gloat) so don't be to sure if you know a retailer or not. Although its not like I'm angry with them, its a hard business with limited customers as it is.

ASC is the hardest place to purchase underage for me. Although I've been able to come aware of sales of guns through different ways other than the classifieds such as; signatures (which is now banned), Pbase accounts (looking at one for accesories and see pics of guns that are labeled for sale), and MSN names (which is just plain out of the control of admins obviously).

Although I've never inquired any guns on here a good way to rid out two of the loopholes is to force buyers to post something in the For Sale thread that contains the product the customer is buying to be sure that they are age verified. Or just add some kind of feature (mabye something down near the AIM/PM/MSN/webpage things are under the trader rating on the side panel of your posts) to show an age verified member.
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Old March 29th, 2006, 14:39   #12
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The system isn't 100% effective, but it works. It's harder for any kid to just get a gun from a retailer than to just get it from our restricted buy & sell area, simply because it's more expensive through a retailer. Perhaps by paying more, they'll have a bit more respect for their new "toy."
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Old March 29th, 2006, 15:31   #13
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The more I read into this discussion the more I think about the stupid fact that our society is based on numbers. (and that's coming from a mathematician.) There are a number of < 18 year olds that are most likely mature enough (heck, some I would have thought were > 18 if I had not asked) but because they fall below a certain number it's "Sorry, you have to wait"
I understand the argument that if they were truly mature they could wait the additional years but there's a number of individuals who are well beyond the 'legal' age involved that are buying for themselves and don't deserve to own a water pistol let alone an airsoft gun. No verification system is going to prevent those morons from getting their hands on guns.
I'm not saying I condone retailers selling to minors and I have no intention of buying from a retailer that would but I wish there were better checks in place to prevent the dumbassery (to coin a term) that gives the community a bad name.
On a positive note I have heard that the cops will try to trace back the sales of an airsoft weapon if it is seized from a minor. This is far from perfect but at least it's something.
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Old March 29th, 2006, 15:44   #14
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A potential solution would be to only have Retailers in our list (above) who are known and proven to check the age of buyers.
It wont stop the problem entirely, but it may reduce it since we know how well newbies (of any age) search... if it's not there to be found, it reduces the odds.

The other, less popular, solution is to make these entire boards 18+. Then we stop having to argue with kids all day. If they screw up after that, nobody can blame ASC.
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Old March 29th, 2006, 15:45   #15
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well these days i've seen alot of retailers using other stores (i.e surplus stores and shooting ranges) to sell they're guns i bought my G3 from a shooting range and they never even asked for my age so thats another way minors get the guns to dont for get.
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