Needed: Guinea Pigs

[CJay]

ok don't be fooled by the name - this is actually an airsoft thing and I'm just being a dingus...but on with the show!!!

So for over a year now I've been collaborating with a couple guys internationally to setup an airsoft version of Kijiji. After much arguing over various aspects (main developer lackey here) the website is finally ready for testing on a larger national scale and since I'm in charge I decided to setup a Canadawide version to start with (going worldwide very soon). It's been running on and off for a few days and starting to get some hits for sure however i wanna see the server struggle!

Ads are completely free to post but do require a signup. PLEASE READ THE TOU BEFORE POSTING. It informs you of your rights and clearly explains the reasoning behind most of the website's rules. Ignorance is not an acceptable excuse.

I'd really appreciate some comments or suggestions to get the system customised more for airsoft use. Feedback has been good from most of Europe and also the test groups in the Philippines but this is the first time it's being opened up on a large scale so please feel free to rant about bugs etc. Also the ads system can be customised to display specific fields to help sort ads into specific subcategories etc - please take note of other fields you would like to see added to the ad submission form.

Also due in part to some of the code being written by my European brethren, the English may be a bit strange in some parts. Please feel free to report and I'll have it fixed.

This is a massive project and has been on the go for over a year now and I'm not expecting it's first large scale trial to be faultless but hey, lets give it a good run! If all goes well we will be launching a full blown worldwide setup and all our tests have shown alot of airsoft communities wiould support such a venture. As I said we really need some feedback from the airsoft community at large so please, Let her rip!!!!

ALSO: Telling me there should be more color will get a rather annoyed response as design is really pretty low on the list right now but it is coming so please - keep the artistic criticism's to a minimum lol.

The website is www.classifiedairsoft.com

NB: Any posts on this version will be transferred to the multinational version once it has been approved by the various regulatory bodies in individual countries where it is required. The large part of this endevour has been getting the various regulatory supervision aspects fixed in the UK and other stricter european countries so please be aware that the TOU may seem very very specific at some points but this is largely to satisfy those stricter requirements. ANY QUESTIONS CAN BE DIRECTED TO ME HERE.

[Danke]

I'll tell you right now it's a mistake to mix spring and gas guns. Each needs it's own section.

[Brit ter]

There is an airsoft sales section here, between ASC and retailers why go anywhere else !

[CJay]

I'll see what I can do bud. Thanks for the input.

[CJay]

Remember this is a multinational effort. This is not just for Canada and is certainly not replacing anything. Hell that's not the intention at all. However there has been a large surge in the last few years towards a more dedicated resource for airsoft related goods. As I've said I'm just looking or test subjects on a large scale here so consider it an additional resource you can utilise for free. Forums are unfortunately limited in the kinds of information they can provide and are not geared towards automated user controlled sales mediums.

This is in no way an attempt to replace any existing system but from the start ha been an attempt at enhancing services in this market area, namely the secondhand and secondary markets.

I'll add that this is also in no way going to develop into a retail model. I have absolutely no intention or remotest desire to tackle that one lol. I have nothing but respect for the majority of canadian retailers that struggle to make ends meet often times. I'm friends with a number of retailers worldwide and have received a great deal of help from them also and as such have successfully avoided stepping on toes thus far. As I said the 2 areas shouldn't be crossing one-another so it should be a non-issue.

[pusangani]

There's something like this on FB
https://www.facebook.com/groups/117569931764314/

[CJay]

yup, I'm actually a member of 5 different airsoft classifieds groups and one of the big problems has been facebook closing down groups when they attract a certain amount of attention. One of the larger PTW specific groups was recently closed due to "member protests".

[siggypoo]

Try to create an account and get an error; Could Not Open Socket.

[Kokanee]

I fail to see why this is necessary at all; indeed, it has the appearance of being created with the express purpose of circumventing importation and ownership laws.

How will you ensure that only persons above the age of 18 are able to purchase restricted items?

I don't think simply posting "Classified Airsoft is not responsible, nor liable for the activities of its advertisers or users." on your website is going to protect you when the RCMP come knocking on your door for faciliating the sale of firearms to minors.

[Corinth]

I'm indecisive on the matter, I like the idea of a Kijiji-type airsoft website but at the same time as other members have mentioned it might have a hard time competing against existing classified websites. Such as... well, Kijiji?

Personally, (despite the fact I still haven't made time to get AV'ed) ASC is what I would turn to in terms of being able to buy off of somebody who holds a reputation and is willing to be honest for the sake of that aforementioned rep. If I do get burned in a sale, I can make my thoughts known here... do you propose a similar system for your own site?

The other problem is having kids getting onto your website and purchasing airsoft, something I'm strictly against. How do you propose to regulate the sales of airsoft guns so as to prevent this beloved hobby from being banned because some 11 year old kid brandished a Kalashnikov in public?

EDIT:

lol By the time I actually got around to posting this, Kokanee, you beat me to the punch.

[Kokanee]

Originally Posted by Corinth

...lol By the time I actually got around to posting this, Kokanee, you beat me to the punch.

[CJay]

firstly I'll address importation side - Whilst the site is multinational and there exists the possibillity of people listing items for cross border sales it is monitored and any sale purporting to cross border shipping outwith the legal avenues will be removed.

In terms of the age verification issue that arises within the Canadian airsoft scene please remember that this is almost exclusively an issue that rears it's head in Canada. With that in mind the site has been designed to trust that the airsoft community at large is at least somewhat responsible for it's own actions and will take different countries laws into account.

The age of buyers and sellers is part of the user agreement which (and i hope it has already gone live) states that each person involved in any trades or sales are over the legal AOM in that respective jurisdiction and anyone to be found breaking these stipulations will be banned and have all advertisements removed. Legally for a classifieds website that does allow the posting of age restricted goods, that's all that can be done in essence without going to a full blown age verification system which I admit is essentially fool proof but limits the scope of practice for that application.

It's true that there is essentially no difference between posting on the dedicated classifieds as there is to posting on Kijiji with the one big difference of there being a dedicated set of selling tools and a single repository.

I really do not want to have to go into the mire that is the politics behind airsoft but suffice to say that as I have already stated I am merely looking for people to use the website at face value and express an opinion on it's functionallity and not it's perceived political implications. At any rate, being a non-canadian origin venture this falls squarely out of the realms ofcanadian law and into the jurisdiction of the host location.

Please don't think that I am saying your argument has no merit but for the purposes of this test and the worldwide perspective on this I'm not going to weary myself by arguing with you overly much. Most airsoft communities around the world are happy for people to openly post sales and simply trust that as a responsible community member will raise a red flag if there are any issues regarding legality due to age concerns. That may not be the way you see it but on this I'm sure we can agree to disagree amicably and take this at face value for the time being for what it is - a test of a globally accessible system.

[Danke]

UK also severely limits the involvement of under 18s. On top of their other requirements tied to the VCRA.

[Kokanee]

So your plan is simply to go with the honour system?

I don't have any personal issue with yourself (we've never met), but what you are doing is arguably criminally responsible.

Case study time;

In two weeks time a 14yo boy (Carl) uses your site to purchase an ICS M4 from another user. Even though they've both signed off on the TOS, promising to "abide by all local laws" etc, the gun is sold as the other fellow wants the money more than he cares about if a teenager has a plastic toy gun.

Carl takes the gun home and starts "playing airsoft" in his neighbourhood. Neighbour calls 911 to report someone brandishing a firearm, cops show up and a young constable (Bob) on his first assignment unfortunately put two rounds in young Carl's chest because Carl points the rifle at him as he turns when confronted with "police!".

The news vans are there before the paramedics arrive and pictures of Carl's bloodied body are soon circulating attached to headlines that read "DEATH BY COP" and "BOY SHOT BY ACCIDENT".

Carl is dead, a family has lost a son, the sport gets a SHITLOAD of bad publicity, and six months later Bob puts on his police dress uniform and shoots himself in the head at home, killing himself because he can't get over the guilt of having shot Carl over a toy gun. Petitioning from Carl and Bob's families pressures the local prosecutor to open and investigation into how young Carl was able to get a product which is supposed to be restricted to those over the age of 18, and on a sunny September morning two RCMP constables are knocking on your door with a warrant to seizes your computer and take you in for questioning.

You're arrested and charged with one count of criminal negligence causing death in contravention of section 219(1) of the Criminal Code of Canada in that you displayed "a wanton and callous disregard" for the safety of others. As well you're charged with facilitating weapons trafficking under section 99 of the criminal code, and unauthorized transfer under section 101.

A good lawyer might be able to plead down the criminal negligence charge to simple negligence causing death, but still you're staring at a long prison term in federal pound-you-in-the-ass prison.

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You need to seriously sit down and ask yourself why you are doing this, and if you insist on this childish endeavor, then at least protect yourself and your associates from prosecution by taking "all reasonable and practicable steps" to ensure you only let 18+ users on.

As well, I've noted that you are making claims of limited liability on your site in regards to damages users may seek from you; have you set up a limited liability corporation? Otherwise you're just spouting bullshit.

[CJay]

Yup I'm aware of that which is why the uk version is developed alongside UKARA and the VCRA legislation. Whilst UKARA is not actually a legally recognised database it is all that is required to prove that you are a registered skirmisher. Anyone 13 years or older can hold UKARA registration status with under 18 requiring parental permission. Both parties involved in any airsoft gun sale must be UKARA members in good standing and active regular skirmishers as laid out in section 19 of the VCRA. It's is the sellers responsibility to ensure the gun is then registered to the new member. As a minor in the uk you can legally buy an airsoft gun with written consent from your legal guardian although you can use it without their presence on a designated skirmishing ground at te age of 14.

I love how clear it is lol. Saying that I dug through 38 pages of the damned thing in order to get just that. That and I am a UKARA member to this day lol. My active skirmish card was revoked due to lack of required number of games in a year lol. Gotta love beurocracy.