teaser for the upcoming VFC Scar GBBR!

[IRONSIGHT]

I agree that the brass tube in the WE guns does take away from the LOOK of realizm, but as far as functionality goes I think the WE system is better. There is no friction to wear out the top seal on the mag like there is on the WA where the bolt/nossle assembly rubs accross it with every shot. With the WE, when the mag is in the gun, the mag to chamber to barrel is pretty much a sealed unit even when the bolt is back so dirt & debri can't get in there. I think in time the WE system will prove to be the most reliable & durable.

Originally Posted by Thenooblord

I've fired a WETTI, and trust me, it is NOT minor, it kicks really hard, mine gets here later this week, cant wait to go nuts with it xD

LOL. I can fire 1/2 a mag (and if it wasn't for cool down it would be a full one) with one hand full auto without it climbing. If you think that's recoil, I'd hate to see you with a RS AR.

[Donster]

my gripe with gas guns (though totally cool i admit) is the fact that they cant be as often as AEGs, what with our cold winters, early spring and late fall. While indoor is possible, it MUST be adjusted accordingly. Do all GBBR have a built in adjuster?

[KoolAidMan]

only aftermarket adjusters are made some company should just go ahead and make them come in the guns stock. it'll save everbody the hassel

[Thenooblord]

Originally Posted by IRONSIGHT

LOL. I can fire 1/2 a mag (and if it wasn't for cool down it would be a full one) with one hand full auto without it climbing. If you think that's recoil, I'd hate to see you with a RS AR.

thats different, real rifearms actually have energy from expanding gasses that push the weapon back when fired, the GBB only has a bolt that moves backwards AND FORWARDS, meaning there is not opportunity for the gun to climb, its simple physics

[RacingManiac]

Originally Posted by IRONSIGHT

I agree that the brass tube in the WE guns does take away from the LOOK of realizm, but as far as functionality goes I think the WE system is better. There is no friction to wear out the top seal on the mag like there is on the WA where the bolt/nossle assembly rubs accross it with every shot. With the WE, when the mag is in the gun, the mag to chamber to barrel is pretty much a sealed unit even when the bolt is back so dirt & debri can't get in there. I think in time the WE system will prove to be the most reliable & durable.

All true points, but the moving nozzle to mag seal is used on all the GBB pistols, so clearly there are some engineering hurdle that needs to be fixed, but no reason why it can't work in this instance....lots of people(including me) like GBB(Rifle or pistol) because not only they are tactilely satisfying because of the blowback, and also because most of them the OEs went the distance of engineering them to be similar to their RS counterpart......IMO someone bound to get it right at some point...be it as continual development on WA or the new VFC or godforbid a TM GBBR....

[Daiviet]

Originally Posted by Thenooblord

thats different, real rifearms actually have energy from expanding gasses that push the weapon back when fired, the GBB only has a bolt that moves backwards AND FORWARDS, meaning there is not opportunity for the gun to climb, its simple physics

real firearm: hammer drops, gas expands, pushing the bullet forward, while the bolt carrier moves backwards, then forwards again to chamber another round.

airsoft rifle: hammer drop, propane expands, pushing the bb forward, while the bolt carrier moves backwards, then forwards again to chamber another round.

how do you think the bolt moves back? its the gas expanding.

[Thenooblord]

jes, but the propane itself has little energy put out pushing the gun back, so its only the bolt that gives any kick, in a real firearm, the gasses expansion is much more powerful, making it the main contributor and the bolt's motion almost irrelevant, therefore the recoil is completely different
case and point, revolvers, the propane gives the revolver no kick, because there is not enough energy, so it will never be the same actual recoil as a firearm, but it can be the same FELT recoil

[IRONSIGHT]

Originally Posted by Thenooblord

thats different, real rifearms actually have energy from expanding gasses that push the weapon back when fired, the GBB only has a bolt that moves backwards AND FORWARDS, meaning there is not opportunity for the gun to climb, its simple physics

Well I hope your not a physics major, if so, you might want to take a different career path. Exactly what is it that you think pushes the bolt back in a GBBR, Magic? Anger? Will power? 'Fraid not buckaroo , it's expanding gas (propane or co2). OH and the bolt on a RS rife actually does go back FORWARD as well (believe it or not it's true), and it does so with a hell of alot more force than a gas gun. Even on a GBBR there is more energy being released by the gasses pushing the bolt back then there is after it bounces back forward. If the buffer spring pressure was equal to the pressure of the gasses being released, it wouldn't blow it back. Very simple physics.And by the way there are more than 1 type of operating systems on real automatic firearms. Closed bolt, gas operated being the modern standard. Although GBBRs fire with a closed bolt, they operate internally like an old school open bolt SMGs' ,Stens, Mac 10/11 Uzis etc. but I'm not in the mood to get in to explaning those to you. You can google it. The bottom line is I can let the muzzle climb a bit if I want to, I simply stated that the recoil is MINOR enough that clime is controlable. = MINOR RECOIL

[Ronan]

Originally Posted by Thenooblord

thats different, real rifearms actually have energy from expanding gasses that push the weapon back when fired, the GBB only has a bolt that moves backwards AND FORWARDS, meaning there is not opportunity for the gun to climb, its simple physics

That post is full of fail

What do you think pushes a GBBR bolt back?

Here's a hint: It's not my post count

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by IRONSIGHT

Well I hope your not a physics major, if so, you might want to take a different career path. Exactly what is it that you think pushes the bolt back in a GBBR, Magic? Anger? Will power? 'Fraid not buckaroo , it's expanding gas (propane or co2). OH and the bolt on a RS rife actually does go back FORWARD as well (believe it or not it's true), and it does so with a hell of alot more force than a gas gun. Even on a GBBR there is more energy being released by the gasses pushing the bolt back then there is after it bounces back forward. If the buffer spring pressure was equal to the pressure of the gasses being released, it wouldn't blow it back. Very simple physics.And by the way there are more than 1 type of operating systems on real automatic firearms. Closed bolt, gas operated being the modern standard. Although GBBRs fire with a closed bolt, they operate internally like an old school open bolt SMGs' ,Stens, Mac 10/11 Uzis etc. but I'm not in the mood to get in to explaning those to you. You can google it. The bottom line is I can let the muzzle climb a bit if I want to, I simply stated that the recoil is MINOR enough that clime is controlable. = MINOR RECOIL

If you pulled the flash hider/muzzle break off of a real AR, that muzzle is going all over the place. It becomes utterly uncontrollable. The reason the muzzle climbs is due to the extreme pressure release of gas, same thing will happen with a fire hose when you open it up.

The muzzle break/flash hider will redirect gases in an upwrad manner, forcing the muzzle back down and keeping the gun controllable. This is especially evident in full-auto. When I fired an M4, it's muzzle control was quite good, easy to handle, recoil managable. I fired an MP4A4 a few minutes later that had no muzzle break, and less recoil buffering and that fucking thing was all over the place. Very hard to control. The FAL was even worse, it was basically AAA after about 3 rounds.

Having put alot of rounds down an AR, I find it hard to believe that any propane/green gas GBBR has anywhere more than maybe 10% the recoil of an AR. The recoil buffer and spring, coupled with the weight of the bolt, the impinged-gas system, tube pressure, barrel pressure and bolt return speed tell me not a chance. I've fired the WA and Inokatsu, and they were little more than a curiosity, not a recoil anything like a real AR.

The WE may be more, but it won't be much more.

I have fired pretty much every GBB pistol made, and not one of them comes anywhere close to a real pistol.

[Bonjour43ma]

I've shot RS rifles and pistols and am sorry to say that these airsoft GBBs are nowhere near the kickback power of the former.

I have nothing to really quantify my numbers but they give you a rough idea of the force of kickback in comparison of the two:

My CO2 GBB pistols are probably the closest, maybe about 30~40% of the RS recoil.

My propane GBB rifles are probably no more than 20% of the RS recoil, maximum.

These airsoft guns will give you a strong JOLT and can throw your aim off - enough that you need to put some effort into holding your target but not strong enough for muzzle climb in any practical sense.

Still, they are fun and much safer/cheaper to shoot at the comfort of your home... can't do that with the RS counterparts.

[m102404]

It recoils harder than a .22LR....kind of like a Rem 597 (.22mag) with a lot of movement. A LOT less than a AR .223.

A WE's recoil is to an AR as a Hicapa GBB is to a 9mm pistol. It's going through the same motions but just at a different power level (thankfully for the target).

There's zero issues with holding it within minute of chest at CQB ranges on FA (which you can nicely pull off 2-3 bursts).

Trigger is a bit creepy, but I used to shoot target...so I'm pretty picky about triggers and lock time.

An Inokatsu recoils harder than the WE M4. In stock form, the AGM feels like it's about to fall apart. The WE SCAR is heavy/chunky...so it dampens recoil a good bit. With the big block bolt carrier & guide rail and recoil spring assembly going back and forth...there's a good bit of metal on metal clank-ity/clunk going on with the SCAR.

I strongly suspect that anyone who picks up a GBBR and says "this is just like the real thing"...is just glassy-eyed with a new toy or is full of sh*t. They're fun though so the new-gun blinders can be excused.

Tys

PS. Ironsight is a studly dude...recoil is just a theoretical thing for him...

[SEALs]

Originally Posted by ujiro

Big +1. And for a GBBR SR25. I would literally pay any amount of money for a GBB SR25.

Times 1 million!!!

[safx]

Originally Posted by Ronan

That post is full of fail

What do you think pushes a GBBR bolt back?

Here's a hint: It's not my post count

Your post count pushes ASC back.

I find it hard to believe people are comparing
the recoil of these guns to real steel. It's really
wishful thinking. The designs are pushing some
of the gas energy backward to bash something
in your stock "simulating" recoil, with nothing
happening at the muzzle end other than a fart.

I've built pistols that are made to kick hard
and even those are just pushing the slide back
faster with nothing happening muzzle end so
you'd be hard pressed to even get half the
desired recoil.

I love my gas guns, don't get me wrong but all
the glossy-eyed blind GBBR love is rediculous.

[safx]

Originally Posted by m102404

Tys

PS. Ironsight is a studly dude...recoil is just a theoretical thing for him...

Ummm, you wouldn't think so if you
knew what he'd do to get my mp5k