We gbbr

[Stealthee]

z0ng's reseal guide is great. My mags don't leak anymore and feel more efficient in a way. But only problem is bits of the gasket maker shoots up into my chamber.

[TPM001]

I can tell you this about WE AK mags: they appear to be less prone to leakage than M4 mags. I have 11 AK mags for a few weeks now. None exhibited any leakage including 2 mags that were stored with no gas pressure. Not even a slow leak. Maybe I'm lucky? (I should go find some wood to knock on).

As far as WE m4 mags go, I have 16 of those (open bolt) and each one has leaked to some extent at some point in time. Some even leaked out of the box. Each one was easily repaired.

I have 4 WE M14 mags of which 1 has leaked.

Other non-WE mags include KWA MP9 mags which I have 9 of them but 4 leak and I am not yet able to repair them. Thinking about running an oil bath on those as the leaks appear to be valve related.

[TPM001]

Just want to add that one of the great advantages of WE rifles is the aftermarket support, which you should always consider.

Parts are plentiful and cheap. There's also third party support for important items such as NPAS valves and steel parts for items prone to high wear or breakage.

You'd be hard pressed to find another GBBR manufacturer out there with such support for parts availability AND affordability.

Don't be afraid of these guns breaking down on you. Part of the fun is fixing them. I can tell you based on experience that it is far more pleasurable fixing, maintaining and upgrading a GBBR than it is for AEG.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Ease of repair, and availability of parts is a key aspect for me.

and I can do it myself.. no need for a "gun Tech" I have done all my GBBR work .. including complete lower receiver parts swaps, and upper receiver overhauls..

I never bothered to try to do this with AEGs the parts just seemed to fiddly there was just too much to align to make them work.

I run my guns hard at times ( really hard, in a few weeks I will run 120 infantry soldiers through 8 guns over 2 days of training ) I doubt anyone pressure tests WE guns harder than I do.

And I keep coming back and buying more.

[Coresair]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

Ease of repair, and availability of parts is a key aspect for me.

and I can do it myself.. no need for a "gun Tech" I have done all my GBBR work .. including complete lower receiver parts swaps, and upper receiver overhauls..

I never bothered to try to do this with AEGs the parts just seemed to fiddly there was just too much to align to make them work.

I run my guns hard at times ( really hard, in a few weeks I will run 120 infantry soldiers through 8 guns over 2 days of training ) I doubt anyone pressure tests WE guns harder than I do.

And I keep coming back and buying more.

what, again?! this is awesome!

[John Spartan]

I would like to thank everyone for their feedback and comments, it has been very insightful and helpful.

As I live in the Toronto area I would like to buy my WE products and after sales parts at a local store. I see that Toronto Airsoft seems to be a WE distributor so I am hoping they could get any necessary parts if they do not stock them in the store. I did some research online and they also seem to have a good reputation too.

I will have to drop by that store and check things out ;-)

[turok_t]

Originally Posted by John Spartan

I would like to thank everyone for their feedback and comments, it has been very insightful and helpful.

As I live in the Toronto area I would like to buy my WE products and after sales parts at a local store. I see that Toronto Airsoft seems to be a WE distributor so I am hoping they could get any necessary parts if they do not stock them in the store. I did some research online and they also seem to have a good reputation too.

I will have to drop by that store and check things out ;-)

Feel free to give me a shout! I sent you a PM. I can be your consultant for WE GBBR's as i have extensive experience.

[ruinz00]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

Ease of repair, and availability of parts is a key aspect for me.

and I can do it myself.. no need for a "gun Tech" I have done all my GBBR work .. including complete lower receiver parts swaps, and upper receiver overhauls..

I never bothered to try to do this with AEGs the parts just seemed to fiddly there was just too much to align to make them work.

I run my guns hard at times ( really hard, in a few weeks I will run 120 infantry soldiers through 8 guns over 2 days of training ) I doubt anyone pressure tests WE guns harder than I do.

And I keep coming back and buying more.

What kind of upgrade parts and maintenance do you do? I haven't heard many people running them that hard without breaking.

I pretty much ruled out buying a WE some time ago. I sounded like they needed parts to be constantly replaced. I'd love to get a skirmishable WE M14.

[wurger]

To the OP, are you looking to jump into the GBBR world?

I've had two WE's (Gen 2 M4 and a more recent 416). They shoot nice in the back yard, but take a fair amount of work to be competitive in the field. Both of my guns were stock out of the box. I sold them both, and both failed at their first fielding.

I had 7 mags for the 416. 4 were great, 3 were crap. I had 6 early mags for the M4, 4 were crap. Crap is defined as unreliable and always leaky, despite doing all of the mods I could find on the web.

I've unloaded the WE's and stashed the cash for the upcoming KWA Magpul M4 GBBR. Once it hits the stores, I'm getting the gun and 8 mags. Based on my experience with KWA GBB mags (25 NS2 pistol mags, one leaker, eaisly fixed), I'm confident the KWA GBBR mags will be superior to the WE mags.

If you're not too budget sensitive, and not impatient, my suggestion is to wait for the KWA GBBR's to come out.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by ruinz00

What kind of upgrade parts and maintenance do you do? I haven't heard many people running them that hard without breaking.

I pretty much ruled out buying a WE some time ago. I sounded like they needed parts to be constantly replaced. I'd love to get a skirmishable WE M14.

Just like a real firearm, when you get a new one, it gets torn down, everything checked, everything lubed, everything tightened/ locked and tested.

Then it's used...

Every gun gets a pre- shoot check, field strip wiped down and checked. and Post Shoot cleaned and checked. Guns that went down get repaired and made ready for the next use.

If this is done they work and work well

The AWSS version the so called "closed bolt" these guns need to be well lubed and oily gas is required for optimum operation.

I use my guns for CQB training.. so consistent long range shots are not required. So an oily hopup is not an issue.

The "open bolt" version likes it dryer so less lube is required and you can run dry gas, so the hopup will work much better for more consistent longer range engagements.

I had an AWSS m4 I got in 2008 and it has been my primary field gun for 3 seasons. tens of Thousands of rounds through it.. if it was a real M4 it would be worn out. But it was still running when I installed to open bolt kit.. and I expect it will run for a few years yet with proper maintenance.

I've seen lots of guys buy a GBBR and then a month later dump it because they did not know how to or were not inclined to do the work to make it run for them. I have picked up a couple of excellent guns this way, bought cheap from people who should not have had them in the first place.

Mags are consumables.. 1 in 8 leak out of the box but all can be made to work if you spend some time on them.

I have killed $500 worth of mags.. and I'm about to spend $2000 on new mags for my new suite of training guns. When I get too many mags going down, I replace them all with new ones.

These guns make me money.. they are the right mix of price and reliability to make their use cost effective and profitable. and at the end of the day that is what is important to me.

[Eeyore]

One of the main issues with WE mags is that they do not fill them with gas as they know most will have to travel by air. So they can lie empty for months before sale and the seals shrink. Most of the time a few injections of oily gas fixes em up but other times they require alot more attention. I've actually stopped carrying mags because of the number of issues.

[TPM001]

I buy all my gas mags from airsoftparts.ca. They test each one before they ship so I never have a problem out-of-the-box.

[Ross]

I bought 8 we m4 mags. About 4 of them leaked out of the box. I used the blue gasket maker fix, and now none of them ever leak. Ever. Leaking or not, I use the blue gasket maker fix on all my mags so I don't have to worry about it anymore.

[m102404]

I have 16-ish mags...a couple were junkers (i.e. busted feed lips...or back plates that just wouldn't seal up, torn/pinched seal, etc...). All got heavy use.

When the mags dry out...the seal will leak. Full stop.

If you use oiled gas and keep them filled...and use them...they'll continue to work "indefinitely".

If you put them aside for a significant period of time (i.e. 3 months) and they leak out and the mags dry out...the seal will leak.

If you use blue gasket silicone sealer and follow Z0ng's or Coachster's guide on sealing mags (very similar to pistol mags) then after it dries (24-30hrs) it'll hold gas reliably. The only note that I would add to their write ups is to be fairly sparingly with the sealer...there's no need for big gobs of it.

Jugglez (airsoftparts.ca) tests a lot of stuff...grenades, LiPos, gas mags, etc...before he'll sell it to you. Awesome value.

Re. play-ability....I am very, very impressed with the open bolt system...both PDW and M4.

Recently we were shooting head to head and I was using a stock WE PDW, with the WE Open Bolt Kit, with the RATech carrier. Propane and .30's. Stock iron sights (rear sight has a freaking huge peep hole). Prone at 30' it was easy to shoot popcan lid sized groups. Standing at 20-25' shooting offhand it was reliable to place shots in a palm sized target. The stock hopup accuracy is very, very nice (and easy to access in the PDW).

Worn out trigger "box"?...~$40, 2 screws and a pin...drop in another one. That's ease of maintenance. Check out airsoftbuddy or anywhere else for replacement WE parts...compare to replacement parts for the magna system...

Leaky fill valve...I just turn down the diameter of the SS Madbull Grenade fill valves (very reliable) and swap out the stock ones.

I will say...that if you get a gremlin GBBR, as in you've tried to remedy the issue but wonky stuff still persists...ditch it and buy another. Same goes with most GBB pistols...once they go south they're often not worth more than 1-3 tries to get it going again.

I don't have lots of trigger time on a WE M14, but from what's said about it...there's lots to wear out simply because there's some significant metal hunks racking hard back and forth. There are a plethora of metal parts out there for it.

As a training tool...can't beat a GBBR. Bang for buck...very hard to beat a WE GBBR.

As a gaming weapon...I shot a GBBR most of all last season. It does not have the range/accuracy of a PTW. But the fun factor often outweighs those factors. And after seeing how the open bolt hopup performs...I'm not tentative in the least to go up against any AEG.

There is nothing like a trigger-break, bang-recoil...HIT...vs. zzzz-pap...HIT.

[ruinz00]

Has anyone run these at farther ranges? I play mostly outdoor. I know I wont be able to get any range comparable to my TM M14.

I really don't like the idea of mags being consumable, especially at $40 each.