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Old October 18th, 2017, 08:55   #1
FULLMETAL
 
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Thumbs down PTW/misleading info in sales questions...

Hi Guys some days ago I saw this ad and thought daaaamn great deal for a PTW, it is broken but I do have spare systema PTW parts at home so I jumped into it. Even if his Trade rating is 0, seems this person has been a member for pretty long so I decided to trust it. Contacted the owner, sent the payment and about a week after got the gun.

I saw the body had no markings, but assumed it was a challenge kit.
Yesterday after a couple of days with the gun at home I had the chance to inspect and open, and for my surprise it is an A&K PTW (PTW Clone) not a Systema. Sent the seller a msg and asked for explanation.

This is the ad;
http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread....&highlight=ptw

Now I'm trying to fix the issue with the seller (asked for full refund except shipping or to make a deal for the actual value of a broken A&K PTW -CLONE-).


So my question is, am I wrong by assuming when u say I have a PTW for sale you are talking about a Systema PTW? I mean I started playing airsoft in 2008 and when u talk about a PTW you talk about systema, if not u say CTW, or DTW or A&K PTW, or you mention the fact that is a CLONE, even for the AIRO.

Im not going to enter into details about how the discussion is going with the seller because we are just starting to talk. But I want to be sure Im not the one who is wrong here, because If I fucked up then I will assume my mistake and let it be. But his ad is missing information besides some other issues he forgets to mention like the buffer tube is very loose, the ECU was replaced, about the issue with the gun, I dont mind it, it can be motor or gearbox (its provably gearbox).

But again I was expecting a Systema and paid the price of a broken systema, and got a gun that brand new is wort $300 broken for $650, so yes, feels pretty much like shit.

Last edited by FULLMETAL; October 18th, 2017 at 08:57..
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Old October 18th, 2017, 09:31   #2
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Buyer Beware!

When I first looked at the ad weeks ago the, lack of brand threw up a warning light immediately.

I assumed it was a knock off. Him not posting the brand and you not clarifying is what he was hoping for.

He list the brands of other things in the post. No excuse to not list the PTW brand, everyone else does.

But yes, you are wrong for assuming and he is wrong for not listing the correct brand.

Edit: Could be he was sold the PTW as a Systema and has no idea what it actually was.

Last edited by Tankdude; October 18th, 2017 at 09:35..
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Old October 18th, 2017, 09:54   #3
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You should NEVER assume, there is no harm in asking questions.

You are both at fault.

Seller: Not being transparent
Buyer: Not asking all the questions

Also mention-able:

http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=184944
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Old October 18th, 2017, 11:18   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tankdude View Post
Buyer Beware!

When I first looked at the ad weeks ago the, lack of brand threw up a warning light immediately.

I assumed it was a knock off. Him not posting the brand and you not clarifying is what he was hoping for.

He list the brands of other things in the post. No excuse to not list the PTW brand, everyone else does.

But yes, you are wrong for assuming and he is wrong for not listing the correct brand.

Edit: Could be he was sold the PTW as a Systema and has no idea what it actually was.
he was aware it is A&K ptw
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Old October 18th, 2017, 12:08   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FULLMETAL View Post

But again I was expecting a Systema and paid the price of a broken systema, and got a gun that brand new is wort $300 broken for $650, so yes, feels pretty much like shit.
I guess he was waiting for someone to fall for the trap. That gun for that price screams he intended to scam someone. I recently got ripped off but it was a small amount... I feel bad for you since that's a huge price difference.

I hope you two can work things out.
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Old October 18th, 2017, 12:40   #6
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A PTW is a Systema and has always been a Systema. It's their gun, their design, their technology. If it's a clone, such as an A&K, it should be stated in the sales ad and the seller should know better. Every single gun sales post, TW or not, includes the brand of the gun. If that gun contains non original parts then they are almost always listed as well, especially if it is a TW.

EXAMPLE: For sale: Systema PTW CQB M4. This started as a challenge kit and was my primary for many years. It has the DTT hop mod an FCC motor. The ECU was replaced with a CTW one.

As a long, long, long time PTW owner/user this is an obvious one. If someone says "PTW", then they are talking about a Systema. I'd ask for my money back and for them to cover any shipping charges as well.

On a side note; you should ask questions when buying to save yourself from any hassles.
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Old October 18th, 2017, 12:58   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post
A PTW is a Systema and has always been a Systema. It's their gun, their design, their technology. If it's a clone, such as an A&K, it should be stated in the sales ad and the seller should know better. Every single gun sales post, TW or not, includes the brand of the gun. If that gun contains non original parts then they are almost always listed as well, especially if it is a TW.

EXAMPLE: For sale: Systema PTW CQB M4. This started as a challenge kit and was my primary for many years. It has the DTT hop mod an FCC motor. The ECU was replaced with a CTW one.

As a long, long, long time PTW owner/user this is an obvious one. If someone says "PTW", then they are talking about a Systema. I'd ask for my money back and for them to cover any shipping charges as well.

On a side note; you should ask questions when buying to save yourself from any hassles.
I asked questions, but as you, I asume when someone talks about a PTW talks about a systema not about a clone. I asked a full refund (I even fixed the gun already one of the gears was f$%^). I offered him to give me either a partial refund (sustancial one) or full refund and he can have his "---->A&K<----PTW" back.
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Old October 18th, 2017, 13:09   #8
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If they're dumb enough to buy an A&K PTW in the first place, I guarantee they do not understand the difference between it and a systema.
Id say this was done out of sheer ignorance, but I absolutely agree that brand should always be stated.
Cost is a flag, but you could potentially buy a "PTW" for $1800 only to find out its just a shitbox FCC.
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Old October 18th, 2017, 13:17   #9
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Two awesome Systema packages were just sold on here for under $1,000 recently, though that's pretty rare.
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Old October 18th, 2017, 13:47   #10
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I sold a PTW before for 900 bucks, is not that rare. Thinking on the fact the gun was broken made me believe it was a real deal, someone who doesn't know the mechanics, trying to leave the hobby... It would make sense if the price was lower than normal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderCactus View Post
If they're dumb enough to buy an A&K PTW in the first place, I guarantee they do not understand the difference between it and a systema.
Id say this was done out of sheer ignorance, but I absolutely agree that brand should always be stated.
Cost is a flag, but you could potentially buy a "PTW" for $1800 only to find out its just a shitbox FCC.
He knew he was selling a A&K all the time. He said that in a private msg. And even if it was a PTW (no clone) he failed to mention the buffer tube is loose/wobbly AF and the ECU was replaced.


And this is a GOOD example of what i mean, this guy sold his PTW some time ago... as can be seen at the thread, by PTW he refers to a SYSTEMA PTW not a cheap ass knock off.
http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread....%26amp%3BK+ptw

Last edited by FULLMETAL; October 18th, 2017 at 14:58..
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Old October 18th, 2017, 16:20   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FULLMETAL View Post

And this is a GOOD example of what i mean, this guy sold his PTW some time ago... as can be seen at the thread, by PTW he refers to a SYSTEMA PTW not a cheap ass knock off.
http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread....%26amp%3BK+ptw
I would not say that was a good example. He doesn't state systema anywhere in his post.

http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread....&highlight=ptw
and
http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread....&highlight=ptw
are better examples of how it should be done.
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Old October 18th, 2017, 16:29   #12
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I meant he didn't mentioned the word systema in his all sale thread, but it was obvious he was selling a systema ptw, not a clone. Its like selling a eotech clone and in your sale you say you are selling a eotech and don't say at any point that is a clone.


This guy was connected today at 13:30 and is ignoring my messages, is there any way to contact an admin or do you guys know which admin to contact? I consider this a case of fraud, the bad intention of the seller is beyond obvious I am offering to return his gun REPAIRED, with all the stuff he sent me and i want my money back, and this person is simply ignoring the messages. Maybe is to early to get to this point but im going by the obvious, he was connected and I sent the messages in the early morning.

Last edited by FULLMETAL; October 18th, 2017 at 16:40..
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Old October 19th, 2017, 09:57   #13
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Contacting admins for Fraud, at least i'll be the last one that gets screwed by this piece of shit.
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Old October 19th, 2017, 13:02   #14
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sellers AV suspended, and a message also sent to him to get into contact.

If you go the police route, have your officer contact me or provide a file # and department I can contact them at to provide what info we can for them to proceed.
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Old October 19th, 2017, 13:59   #15
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Originally Posted by BloodSport View Post
sellers AV suspended, and a message also sent to him to get into contact.

If you go the police route, have your officer contact me or provide a file # and department I can contact them at to provide what info we can for them to proceed.

Will give him the chance to resolve the problem with the help of an admin, if he insists to not cooperate then I'll have to try other ways.
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