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Stolen Valour?

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Old October 28th, 2017, 18:25   #1
pestobanana
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Stolen Valour?

Alrighty boys, anyone with some good NVG knowledge or military service chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.

I met this guy at a game maybe a month or two ago. He claimed he was Airborne in the US, but he didn't give off the right vibe, and he talked about helicopter insertions a lot. I don't know, that tipped my BS meter a bit but I didn't say anything since I know very little about actual military operations.

Guy talked today about night vision (BIG MISTAKE). He claimed he had two sets of NVGs in a storage locker in the US, and he was trying to identify them. At first he said they were issued to him. One he claimed was a "two into one gen three", made by ATN. "You mean a PVS-7? ITT? ATN doesn't supply the US military." He claimed he was sure it was ATN and that ATN had entire mil line. He also claimed that in the Airborne he was given stuff from General Starlight (GSCI) because it was basically "whoever could get them the stuff the fastest". Ummmmmm okay...... As far as I know US mil contracts all went to Exelis/ITT/Harris or Litton/L-3. He claimed this was 2013. I thought PVS-7 style devices were phased out ages ago.

I then asked him about his other set to help him ID the set. He claimed it was a "two separate" unit, he thought it was made by ATN. WHO THE FUCK CALLS BINOS "TWO SEPARATE"? I asked him what the pupillary (distance between eyes) adjustment mechanism was, because that can differentiate between PVS-15, PVS-31, and ANVIS style systems. He then thought for a few seconds and said "Iuno I never used them, I stole them off a guy." LOL OKAY THANKS FOR ADMITTING TO STEALING AT LEAST 10K OF EQUIPMENT FROM THE U.S. MILITARY.

Thoughts?
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Old October 28th, 2017, 20:28   #2
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I think that's the direction I should have gone with this one though.
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Old October 28th, 2017, 20:58   #3
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Old October 28th, 2017, 23:03   #4
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Okay, one there's no real IQ test to get in so stuff stuff serving and ex members say is can be off the hook.

A US guy turning up at an airsoft game in Canada saying that he's ex-US Airborne with a storage locker of kit across the border has alarm bells ringing.
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Old October 29th, 2017, 02:49   #5
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Just ask basic shit he should know without thinking about, like his MOS.

Ask him if he got his "DD-412" (its supposed to be DD-214, its discharge papers): he should instant catch you got the number reversed and know wtf you're talking about.

Any fails on those and I call instant BS.
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Old October 29th, 2017, 13:17   #6
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Just ask basic shit he should know without thinking about, like his MOS.

Ask him if he got his "DD-412" (its supposed to be DD-214, its discharge papers): he should instant catch you got the number reversed and know wtf you're talking about.

Any fails on those and I call install BS.
This. If he doesn't even know his own MOS, he's full of fucking shit.
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Old October 29th, 2017, 14:11   #7
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Ask him what colour the boathouse is at Airborne camp.
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Old October 30th, 2017, 18:13   #8
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Think people are throwing “Stolen Valour” around loosely. Don’t think that it applies here in this case.
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Old October 30th, 2017, 18:23   #9
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It depends. Technically, you're correct as the official usage of the term involves the asshole gaining a tangible benefit from lying about serving. However, personally, I consider it applicable to anybody who lies about being a member of the military in a capacity that they never were.
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Old October 30th, 2017, 19:05   #10
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It depends. Technically, you're correct as the official usage of the term involves the asshole gaining a tangible benefit from lying about serving. However, personally, I consider it applicable to anybody who lies about being a member of the military in a capacity that they never were.
Called “Military Imposter”
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Old October 30th, 2017, 19:24   #11
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In doing so, they're still stealing valour in my opinion.
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Old October 30th, 2017, 21:39   #12
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In doing so, they're still stealing valour in my opinion.
Don’t get me wrong I don’t agree with people imposing on something they’re not but I also believe in doing things proper regardless of what my personal feelings may be. I mean we really know nothing about this guy in question. I’ve run into stories like this where it sounded hokey. I try not to pass judgement and just bite my tongue until further evidence presents itself.
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Old October 31st, 2017, 11:39   #13
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Gaining respect and/or attention through lying to people is an advantage and does make you a shitty person. Some may call this a loose interpretation, but I definitely support them being dragged into the light over it. I don’t like being surrounded by liars, I don’t like being surrounded by people who stand on the shoulders of the dead and I don’t like being surrounded by people who drag that negativity towards Airsoft. As if our community needed more idiots who cross the line from tactical competition and try to compare it to real combat/conflict.
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Old October 31st, 2017, 12:49   #14
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I would definitely suggest this person show their bona fides if he's going to be involved in your group over time. If he's a faker then yes that stigma will rub off on the others he's associated with.

The core of this activity is to honestly call your hits. If you come in the door with a mindset like this and a false CV you're not welcome.

Unfortunately for him so many have come before him and done this that the presumption of innocence isn't applicable. When you make and extraordinary claim you also must supply ironclad proof.

Whatever name you have for it impersonating a member of the military (or a firefighter, or police officer) never turns out well. It's a typical con man back story used to gain respect and traction that leads to further lies, thefts, and other unhappy endings.

If the guy is a real Vet then kudos to him and welcome to the sport but if he's that guy with "a bunch of gear in a storage locker and a hazy past" then hard pass. Before you know it he's selling this NVG with cash up front and then driving down to the locker on the weekend to get it. Then you know what happens next.
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Old October 31st, 2017, 17:02   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pestobanana View Post
Alrighty boys, anyone with some good NVG knowledge or military service chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.

I met this guy at a game maybe a month or two ago. He claimed he was Airborne in the US, but he didn't give off the right vibe, and he talked about helicopter insertions a lot. I don't know, that tipped my BS meter a bit but I didn't say anything since I know very little about actual military operations.

Guy talked today about night vision (BIG MISTAKE). He claimed he had two sets of NVGs in a storage locker in the US, and he was trying to identify them. At first he said they were issued to him. One he claimed was a "two into one gen three", made by ATN. "You mean a PVS-7? ITT? ATN doesn't supply the US military." He claimed he was sure it was ATN and that ATN had entire mil line. He also claimed that in the Airborne he was given stuff from General Starlight (GSCI) because it was basically "whoever could get them the stuff the fastest". Ummmmmm okay...... As far as I know US mil contracts all went to Exelis/ITT/Harris or Litton/L-3. He claimed this was 2013. I thought PVS-7 style devices were phased out ages ago.

I then asked him about his other set to help him ID the set. He claimed it was a "two separate" unit, he thought it was made by ATN. WHO THE FUCK CALLS BINOS "TWO SEPARATE"? I asked him what the pupillary (distance between eyes) adjustment mechanism was, because that can differentiate between PVS-15, PVS-31, and ANVIS style systems. He then thought for a few seconds and said "Iuno I never used them, I stole them off a guy." LOL OKAY THANKS FOR ADMITTING TO STEALING AT LEAST 10K OF EQUIPMENT FROM THE U.S. MILITARY.

Thoughts?

I'm not going to throw in whether I think he's Mil or not, but Z, you need to understand something here. Most of us don't give a rats ass about proper terminology, brands or technical shit when it comes to issued kit. It's free shit we get to use for a while, whether we want to or not. Chances are, it gets handed to us and we get told to use it, there's no training involved for shit like NVG, there's no skill testing questions or shit like capabilities and specs you have to remember. Hell, you're lucky if they tell you what it's designation is when it's given to you, but more likely, you just get told "Take this, don't fucking break it".

Personal example: I'd been in about a year when I got handed a set of 504-B (Pretty much a PVS-7 I think), didn't even get told what it was, told to put it the fuck on, get in my truck, and go out on a training convoy in Blackout conditions. Blackout condition means you've shut all your vehicle lights off. ALL of them, headlights, breaklights, dash lights, everything, there's not a single light except two tiny, barely visible red lights on the rear bumpers to let you see the vehicle in front's location and allow you to stay in line/keep spacing, unless you've been authorized, as lead vehicle to use the Blackout Drive Light, which is a dull ass white light that MIGHT illuminate about a foot in front of your bumper.

I've heard many guys refer to bino setups as "Dual setup" or "The two peice one" and various other terms along those lines. The Two into one thing was a common way for us to describe the PVS504/504B as well. Pupillary adjustment mechanism? The answer you'll get every time will be along the lines of "No fucking clue dude, I just got these little nobs and flips that make the fucker move around a bit".

Working on the logistics side, at one point, the U.S. Military was, in fact, grabbing NVGs from "anyone" who could provide them tubes and units that met the MIL specifications. When a war is in full swing and you haven't had time to prepare before hand, or you need replacements faster than a company can provide them, you find other companies to augment the numbers, so it is very possible that ATN did in fact help supply the U.S. Military, I've seen a few of their products when I've worked with Americans. Now, in terms of the numbers game or the possibility of sub-contracts, I have zero clue, but having used the Catalogue system out of curiosity in the past, I can tell you that ATN is in fact in the system for NVG, and under a U.S. NSN.


Now, my last two points.

PVS-7 Phase out: On paper..... yes, they were phased out years ago. Reality is different, there are units STILL in possession of PVS-7, there were units in Iraq and Afghanistan USING PVS-7. There's footage and images of it all over the place. Was it ideal? No. Were the guys given it happy about it? Probably not.

Theft: Welcome to reality in the Armed Forces. Soldiers steal shit from each other all the time, it's a fact of life, and why we have out name and Service Numbers permanently marked into literally everything we get, from underwear to helmets. You won't steal from your section or unit mates, but if you head somewhere and your rain jacket is fucked, and there are shortages at your base? It's good betting odds that you're gonna swap name tags and rank slips with someone else's in the coat area and walk out with it. It sucks at times, it can be a huge piss off, and you'd like to think you could expect better, but this is an age old reality, as old as the existence of any Military. So, do I think it's possible he stole an NVG from someone? Damn right I do.
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Like seriously dude. The incredible lack of common sense in the question could be scientifically investigated for evidence of a black hole.
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