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Sniper survey VSR-10 , SSG-24 etc. Range and effective range

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Old June 5th, 2019, 09:36   #1
joshua3302
 
Join Date: May 2019
Sniper survey VSR-10 , SSG-24 etc. Range and effective range

I Just watched a few you tube videos on sniper range. I would appreciate sniper gun owners participating in a survey to have a wider understanding of range and effective range under ideal weather conditions. Please put down gun model, any upgrades, fps, and your average range and effective range in ideal weather conditions. We can assume everyone will be using heavier bb's, but fps will relate to standard .20 testing.

For example:
Bar-10 upgraded VSR-10 Action Army VSR-10 Hop-Up Chamber, AA Cylinder Kit, A A M150 Spring, A A Spring Guide ,A A Specialized "Zero" Trigger Set ,AA 150 spring running at 480 fps. Range 95 meters, EF [effective range] 80 meters.

SSG-24, no upgrade, 150 spring at 490 fpss range 95 meters, EF 80 meters.

There are a lot of videos on range but many are using a 190 spring and shooting over 600 fps which is not allowed at most fields. I think it would be valuable for people considering getting into airsoft sniping hearing from real unbiased, experienced people, stating honest opinions, rather than professional gun reviewers/store owners who are getting free guns and parts from manufacturors.
Thanks for your your help
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Old June 6th, 2019, 22:32   #2
ThunderCactus
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Join Date: Feb 2007
To be perfectly honest, if your maximum range is NOT equal to your effective range, it's because you're doing something wrong. The majority of the time, people are using BBs that are too light.

If my rifle can push a BB OUT to 320ft, then I can HIT something at 320ft.
It's only certain weather conditions that are going to limit the effective range; inconsistent wind gusts, vortexes, sudden wind breaks, cold weather, rain, and to a small extent crosswinds. But countering a consistent crosswind is very easy.
I've single-shot many a person on the first try at the absolute limit of my range. It doesn't happen particularly often, but as long as I can predict the path of the BB to the target, there's no reason why my gun shouldn't be able to hit it.

Piece of crap snow wolf M24
cylinder frankly doesn't matter as long as it seals. A stock action army, JG, marui, top end PDI cylinder will all shoot the same if they all compress the same.
TDC modded PDI chamber, wouldn't recommend it; stock design sucks, needed lots of modding for Rhop and TDC.
PDI 6.01 480ish mm, need the bore and length for the muzzle energy. APS2 cylinders are real narrow.
R hop
2.3j on .43s
Longest confirmed shot is a nice round 100m on google earth, whatever that translates to in real numbers

Last edited by ThunderCactus; June 6th, 2019 at 22:40..
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Old June 7th, 2019, 09:17   #3
joshua3302
 
Join Date: May 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderCactus View Post
To be perfectly honest, if your maximum range is NOT equal to your effective range, it's because you're doing something wrong. The majority of the time, people are using BBs that are too light.

If my rifle can push a BB OUT to 320ft, then I can HIT something at 320ft.
It's only certain weather conditions that are going to limit the effective range; inconsistent wind gusts, vortexes, sudden wind breaks, cold weather, rain, and to a small extent crosswinds. But countering a consistent crosswind is very easy.
I've single-shot many a person on the first try at the absolute limit of my range. It doesn't happen particularly often, but as long as I can predict the path of the BB to the target, there's no reason why my gun shouldn't be able to hit it.

Piece of crap snow wolf M24
cylinder frankly doesn't matter as long as it seals. A stock action army, JG, marui, top end PDI cylinder will all shoot the same if they all compress the same.
TDC modded PDI chamber, wouldn't recommend it; stock design sucks, needed lots of modding for Rhop and TDC.
PDI 6.01 480ish mm, need the bore and length for the muzzle energy. APS2 cylinders are real narrow.
R hop
2.3j on .43s
Longest confirmed shot is a nice round 100m on google earth, whatever that translates to in real numbers
Predicting the path to the target is more of a skill set.
Maximum range can be subjective to the user. For example, if you are hitting 300 yards but are good at compensating quickly by aiming 4 feet above the target, you are being effective, but its not really considered effective range. Its more skill set.
For the purpose of this survey, effective range would be the bb going within a foot of where you aim, with little compensation. Obviously, this is in perfect weather conditions. In windy conditions your skill set becomes a major factor and any survey regarding performance of equipment would become irrelevant. This survey is more to help people push the limits of their equipment.
But you made a excellent point about finding the perfect bb weight for the gun you are using.
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Old June 8th, 2019, 15:10   #4
ThunderCactus
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The BB's trajectory between the effective range and the maximum range is *random*, and therefore unpredictable.
Anyone can aim the gun a bit higher to make the BB go further, and it will go further.
But not everyone can aim the gun higher and actually hit something, that's an issue of skill, but the fact that the gun *can* hit someone is not changed by the fact the shooter isn't compensating for variables.
Effective range is a matter of the gun's grouping. It's ability to hit the same spot consistently.
Point of aim is personal skill, where you'd be compensating for weather variables.
Max range, obviously how far the BBs are going.


There's actually a simple test for determining your optimal BB weight I came up with years ago, and it really helps show how effective range and max range differ.
Works on all guns, and it's actually more visible on an upgraded gun.
If you shoot light BBs like .20s, you'll notice at the end of their effective range they will veer off into random directions. The trajectory flays at the end. This is due to the BB running out of momentum; both forward and in spin, so the spin destabilizes, the slower the BB goes the more the magnus effect takes hold, and it flies off randomly.

So if you go from a .20 to a .28, you'll notice the BB goes much further, much straighter, and flays much further down the ways. It has significantly more effective range, but maybe it's still flaying out at near the end, not by much, but enough that your spread is larger than a person.

Now we've established that heavier BBs will decrease your grouping, thereby getting your effective range closer to your maximum range, because they carry their momentum further (heavier objects lose momentum less quickly than lighter ones).
So we just keep raising the weight until that grouping is tight enough.
But we can't just go to .43s right off the bat. First off, it's pretty expensive to be going through a bag of .43s in an AEG every game. Second, there's a bisecting curve of losing range vs gaining accuracy.
You will always get better accuracy, but there's a point where your gun simply isn't putting enough energy in the BB for it to maintain lift over a large range. So you'll be dropping .43s into a shot glass at 200ft, but that's your max range.

So you find the happy medium, like .32s, where you can consistently hit 1-2ft groupings at your max range. And that's the *gun* hitting that grouping, not the shooter.
So now the gun's effective range is equal to it's maximum range. Hitting people at that range is a matter of personal skill, but the fact the gun *can* hit someone at that range is inconsequential to their inability to aim.

The best example of personal effective range versus the gun's effective range is with pistols, actually.
I know a ton of airsofters just naturally assume pistols are not accurate. But it's because people tend to suck at aiming pistols. It's very short, it has little support in your hands, and it moves a LOT.
But in bracing my pistol, I can easily get a 4" grouping at 160ft.
Pistols can be VERY accurate, but people tend to suck at shooting them.

I apologize for writing a novel lol
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