GBBR vs. AEG

[venture]

Well it is the 2010 season now and people have used their new (and not so new) GBBR's for a while now.

The post title say it all. I have never owned or even used a GBBR so I need some discussion here in order to learn more.

Which is better on the field? The tried and tested AEG or the new kid, the GBBR.

Is the GBBR "ready for primetime"?

What do you carry one the field for a primary? What would you prefer to carry?

[ShelledPants]

If you move to a GBBR, you are sacrificing a LOT of things: shot consistency, accuracy, rate of fire, relative silence, less often maintenance...

What you gain is: tactile feedback, wicked loud report and scare factor, a much more "realistic" experience with operating the rifle, and giggle factor 10,000.

They are NOT for everyone. But EVERYONE likes firing them. So it's something to keep in mind.

[AngelusNex]

The full extent of my experience with GBBRs is with crunchmeisters Inokatsu M4..... He's had nothing but problems with it.... INSANELY fun to shoot / awesome to be shot at by, but not worth all the problems inherent with gas powered guns (at least as a primary). If you get one, always bring an AEG as a backup to games just incase.

Edit: However the WE GBBRs should be least problematic as they use the old proven brass cylinder system of the original Gas rifles. Though mags will always be the biggest drawback to GBBRs (leaks and cost)

[coach]

Mags aren't cheap. Though WE's are the cheaper option a load out of 10 mags (30 rounds each) will be $450-500.

They can also leak which is not good for in the middle of a fire fight. Also, mags get heavy!

Aside from the costs, I love my WE PDW. The kick ass loud report is awesome and it gets a different reaction from your opponent than if you have an AEG. Let's just say people duck quicker but are often curious as to what they are being shot at with.

Also, gas guns are not reliable in cold weather!

[venture]

Originally Posted by AngelusNex

The full extent of my experience with GBBRs is with crunchmeisters Inokatsu M4..... He's had nothing but problems with it.... INSANELY fun to shoot / awesome to be shot at by, but not worth all the problems inherent with gas powered guns (at least as a primary). If you get one, always bring an AEG as a backup to games just incase.

Edit: However the WE GBBRs should be least problematic as they use the old proven brass cylinder system of the original Gas rifles. Though mags will always be the biggest drawback to GBBRs (leaks and cost)

Reliability is one of my greatest concerns. I am waiting for at least one or two people to say they have a gas rifle with no problems for 50,000 rounds.

Do you think that is even possible?

I expect an aeg to last 50,000 cycles, why not a gas gun?

[AngelusNex]

Nah They'll (regardless what some people say) never be as reliable as AEGs. Some may seem it, but it's not possible.

But regardless, I'm still getting one when i can afford to spend the money.

[Kid]

I'm waiting for the Real Sword GBBRs.

[Amos]

The KJW M4 GBBR's are fantastic... They keep on ticking without quitting.

Tanio Koba designed them.. and he's the inventor of the modern gas blowback system.

[kullwarrior]

All I can say that gas in mag gbbr is not yet ready and never will be.
And my reason is simply cost vs durability for mags. Most of time I felt that the company is cheaping out and overcharging mags with their crappy material as a tell tale sign. As for the gun itself the quality can never exceed the current rate simply it will be branded as machinegun as ATF has attempted to rule.

Personally I'll stick to my external air daytonagun just because the mags is aeg
, no cool down and that the material are all stainless steel. Some say the external tank is an hassle but in reality it's so easy to put it into a utility pouch (<12oz) or in backpack like I do. The hose line is really easy to conceal like most folks thought I was running aeg until I started firing

[aZn_triXta07]

Originally Posted by kullwarrior

Personally I'll stick to my external air daytonagun just because the mags is aeg
, no cool down and that the material are all stainless steel. Some say the external tank is an hassle but in reality it's so easy to put it into a utility pouch (<12oz) or in backpack like I do. The hose line is really easy to conceal like most folks thought I was running aeg until I started firing

9oz or 12oz are good options if you're running CO2, you also get more shots out then HPA but remember there's still liquid
13cui Tanks are available for HPA but they cost the same as 48cui ones so you'd have to decide.
AEG Magazines are still a big plus for me, I don't have to worry about damaging mags doing tactical reloads and they are easier to get a hold of.

I would have to say if gas-in-mag GBBRs were built with top notch materials they would last a long time but the manufacturers and aftermarket part makers would be out of business, I swear RA-TECH never existed until GHK, WA, and WE came out.

It's all one big scheme to milk us of our money!

[kullwarrior]

Originally Posted by aZn_triXta07

9oz or 12oz are good options if you're running CO2, you also get more shots out then HPA but remember there's still liquid
13cui Tanks are available for HPA but they cost the same as 48cui ones so you'd have to decide.
AEG Magazines are still a big plus for me, I don't have to worry about damaging mags doing tactical reloads and they are easier to get a hold of.

I would have to say if gas-in-mag GBBRs were built with top notch materials they would last a long time but the manufacturers and aftermarket part makers would be out of business, I swear RA-TECH never existed until GHK, WA, and WE came out.

It's all one big scheme to milk us of our money!

RA-Tech biggest success in their story was they're the first to make steel bolt carriers, bolt catch and aluminium nozzle. I hate to say it but I know the prices from Taiwan, and they're not charging anywhere close to Taiwanese standard, they are after North America and Europe the whole time. RA-Tech has a factory to make for them, even Justin's CNC Steel for his own daytonagun's quality is higher.

As for higher quality parts for GBBR, as much as I want it, all I can say is you're best bet is to use firearm parts. I hate Americans in the south can do it easily. Iron Airsoft Receiver (Firearm spec, and works with firearm selector without mods) although getting F/A parts is next to impossible. Its legally to own every single parts for guns except receiver if you don't have PAL/RPAL. Using Firearm Receiver (lower) will maked you stick to semi and you can't discharge it as our lovely Canadian laws forbid it.

IMHO the internal mag is a dead route, as I said before.
$100 for a die-cast cheap plastic magazine is ridiculous. I'd be expecting a HPA (1500psi w/ proper hydro) build via CNC aluminium or carbonfibre.

$200 for a lower receiver kit? you can buy Full auto DPMS parts for less (basically the CYMA/D-Boys interms of AR-15) For Canadians, goodluck inorder to purchase FA parts in US you need Class II License atleast and US DOD will NEVER allow export of those stuff.

The only thing that makes me want to go back to internal mag is that there's more innovation there. GHK, SRC, Real Sword, VFC, and WE are developing new models (not variations of ol AR-15) while the external air is still really limited to...
AR-15 (Sun project, Daytonagun, Escort)
SR-15 (Daytonagun)
MP5 (Escort)
MP44 (Shoei)
MG42 (Shoei)
AK (Daytonagun)
L85, Bizon, FNC, FAL (Daytonagun, still developing...last updated 2 years ago)

[Sicyon]

I own a WE PDW, and a WE M4. They are way more fun to shoot than any AEG in terms of realism. There are of course downsides to it, which have been mentioned above. If you do happen to go with a GBBR, particularly WEs, you have to be careful of the FPS out of the box. Both of mine shot hot right out of the box (they shot between 450 - 500), despite being advertised to shoot 400 fps. So, if you intend to game it, you'll have to do some work to it first.

If you are going to get one avoid the clear bodied/cansoft ones. I'm speaking from experience when I say that they DO NOT last. I think mine went 3 games before the lower receiver exploded.

[Assault Pioneer]

dont get the new open bolt gbr's unless you've had a gbbr for ahwile and are used to working on them.

I got an open bolt KAC PDW right now and it's AMAZING to shoot but has has quite a few catastrophic jams (bb's not being pushed into the barrel and falling into the trigger assembly, jamming in grooves in the magwell. getting stuch in behind the bolt somehow than as the gun fired the round gets hammered and mushes into the corner of the gun or shatters causeing a mess and so on and so forth) which I dont mind as the added jamming reminds me of the proneness to jamming the old armalites had (even though this is neither but meh) but during a game it's a pain in the ass, especially when you need a knife to dig a bb out cause a mag won't feed or the bolt won't move.

[Thenooblord]

shameless plug for KJW, but like amos said, ive never had a failure in my KJW other than an elastic band, and even then the gun still fires, and ive probably put 10-15k through it

[aZn_triXta07]

Yaya I know this thread is about GBBR vs AEG but let me break it down, if you like AiMBotting in FPS then an AEG is for you, besides there are more gun-techs around and the parts are somewhat cheap depending on what your build is.

However if you want realism and actually have to 'work' to get desired results while playing than go for the GBBR hell it's fun to shoot anyway, not a boring old sewing machine it's a different experience, closest you can get to real steel without worrying about killing your friends :P

Originally Posted by kullwarrior

As for higher quality parts for GBBR, as much as I want it, all I can say is you're best bet is to use firearm parts.

$200 for a lower receiver kit? you can buy Full auto DPMS parts for less (basically the CYMA/D-Boys interms of AR-15) For Canadians, goodluck inorder to purchase FA parts in US you need Class II License atleast and US DOD will NEVER allow export of those stuff.

That would work but it would really blend the lines of grey-area, that's why I'm tired of working with airsoft guns, the quality of internal components is just a big turn-off, people say buying airsoft is like buying a car ...well the manufacturers should start taking things seriously - tough luck though =/

Originally Posted by kullwarrior

IMHO the internal mag is a dead route, as I said before.
$100 for a die-cast cheap plastic magazine is ridiculous. I'd be expecting a HPA (1500psi w/ proper hydro) build via CNC aluminium or carbonfibre.

Yeah I thought of that too, they are simply milking airsofters for low-grade material, look at what the paintball industry has it IS possible to make quality stuff but I guess making money is part of the business for that I don't really blame them I just mutter to myself :P

Originally Posted by kullwarrior

The only thing that makes me want to go back to internal mag is that there's more innovation there. GHK, SRC, Real Sword, VFC, and WE are developing new models (not variations of ol AR-15) while the external air is still really limited to...
AR-15 (Sun project, Daytonagun, Escort)
SR-15 (Daytonagun)
MP5 (Escort)
MP44 (Shoei)
MG42 (Shoei)
AK (Daytonagun)
L85, Bizon, FNC, FAL (Daytonagun, still developing...last updated 2 years ago)

Justin is still a 1-2 man operation, unfortunately there will probably never be enough interest for his designs so that's just how things will have to be. I for one will always love external gas because it's more reliable especially with Justins quality of work.

Gas-In-Mag I've experienced different brands and WE still sticks out, don't worry everybody I'm not on payroll to VelocityArms I prefer the AFC design as it's had the most satisfactory performance out of all the GBBRs I've handled.

I've got a new VFC on the way so I will see how that holds up ...as for GHK haha they can forget about selling me anything until they have a YouTube video of their new guns shooting 1000rds consecutively!