Would you play at a field with no insurance?

[NANA]

I might have to start a WWII kit and get into some of those events. Ive been following your WWII thread Brian. It looks like a good time.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by NANA

I might have to start a WWII kit and get into some of those events. Ive been following your WWII thread Brian. It looks like a good time.

It's a whole new experience, come see us at TAC14!

[ThunderCactus]

For the past 8 years I think I've played on maybe 3 fields that had actual insurance for what we were doing. Otherwise, 90% of the fields I play on have no kind of insurance.

A better question would be, would you HOST regular games at a field with no insurance?

[BioRage]

I play a lot at Whitby Airsoft field. Sam's a good host there.

Though I notice a ton of green never call there hits. It's in-evitable, guess they are to comfortable :P

What do you look for in a field?

Uniqueness. Main reason I play at Whitby is because of the forest/woodlands theme.

What would it take to keep you coming back to a field?

Price, community, people, location. Whitby Airsoft is closer to me then most fields, great hosts and great people. Food is quite good too, and gas is cheaper out there then Toronto. At $10 you can't complain, really. It's also very close to the 401 exit.

What do you look for in a game host?

Confidence, what they are doing, adapting to player suggestions/recommendations/game plays.

How important is field safety to you?

It's obviously important, but there are risks for playing in difference scenarios. I.E @Whitby playing in a forest you are self-prone to poison ivy, fire ants, mosquitos, spiders, and other stuff. It's really up to the community and players to be well aware of their surroundings. Often when playing other teammates would say "Hey don't go there, there is poison Ivy over there." People like those guys are awesome.

I plan on trying Hill437 this summer with Bad Karma, and other friends who have visited there.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

For the past 8 years I think I've played on maybe 3 fields that had actual insurance for what we were doing. Otherwise, 90% of the fields I play on have no kind of insurance.

A better question would be, would you HOST regular games at a field with no insurance?

The field insurance does not protect the Host.. at all

If you as a game host don't have a CGL policy for that activity, you are on your own. ( I'd say that few to none do )

[Trev140_0]

I now have over 1,200 signed waivers filed by month on file from the past 2 years. At least half are repeats meaning the person signed 20-30 throughout the 2 years. If not more.

And for those who feel a waiver is not worth the paper its written on. I have two words. "Horse Shit".

They are a binding contract.





The courts have held in cases that properly prepared and presented releases of liability are binding. This is consistent with the principle in contract law that a party is bound by the document in the absence of fraud or misrepresentation. There have been many cases in which the courts have found waivers valid and sufficient to exonerate defendants from liability even for alleged negligence.

Early adventure cases include Delaney v. Cascade River Holidays Ltd in 1983, Dyck v. Manitoba Snowmobile Assn. Inc. in 1985 and Karroll v. Silver Star Mountain Resorts in 1988. More recent high-profile instances include Ochoa v. Canadian Mountain Holidays Inc., the 1996 case based on the avalanche deaths of nine clients while heli-skiing and the 2009 Alberta horse riding case of Van Hooydonk v. Jonker.


It is no longer correct to say that waivers are not worth the paper they are printed on.
The Supreme Court of British Columbia in Karroll v. Silver Star Mountain Resorts offered some insight as to what a properly crafted waiver would look like. The court considered that a release which is short, easy to read, contained no fine print, one page in length, and headed in capital letters “RELEASE AND INDEMNITY – PLEASE READ CAREFULLY” would reveal to a reasonable person that this was indeed a legal document intended to release the defendants from liability.


.

[Trev140_0]

And by the way, organizing a bunch of guys together to go mountain biking can carry just the same risk. Guy wipes out on the tail and winds up in a wheel chair. He says the guy who got me to go riding caused this.

Really??



The issue goes back to the first comment I made. Get solid players together..

But if your out to just fill a field and collect as much cash, you likely will not succeed for very long.

[NANA]

Originally Posted by Trev140_0

And by the way, organizing a bunch of guys together to go mountain biking can carry just the same risk. Guy wipes out on the tail and winds up in a wheel chair. He says the guy who got me to go riding caused this.

Really??



The issue goes back to the first comment I made. Get solid players together..

But if your out to just fill a field and collect as much cash, you likely will not succeed for very long.

This is why i made this post.

Intelligent replies based on facts and experience. Ive been saying the same for years. Crappy players lead to crappy games.

I hosted games last season at my local field. My partner seemed more concerned with how many people hé could stuff onto the field. Without thinking about the quality of play that we were getting. In the end I had to walk away before it could ruin the good name I have worked hard to build in this little world of airsoft we live in. At the end of the day Its the little things like player saftey, self respect and quality of game play that keep me Comming back to Ã* field. And If you cant offer that then dont waste our time.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

On Waivers... From a lawyer who makes his living in the personal Injury field " I have never seen a waiver that I can't defeat"

Of course in Canada stupid, minor claims never make it to litigation. But a waiver is no protection against serious injury incurred if there is negligence.

Waivers and informed consent are effective defense against minor, or "stupid" claims. The kind of .. " I fell down in the forest at your game and now have a fear of forests" kind of claims that do happen in the USA just don't pass GO in Canada.

[Danke]

Waivers no mater how well written, and how much bold text with red fonts are not like tequila.

They will not make you ten feet tall, invisible, and bulletproof.

It's just as likely that they may not dissuade a nuisance person from deciding to sue you, their lawyer from doing everything in their power to make settling seem like a good idea to you, or you own lawyer from submitting substantial bills for hours and letter writing. Remember your defense won't be working on contingency. They get their fee win or loose.

It would be interesting to add in what it cost in time and money for those noted cases to get filed in the win column.

If you're a young guy living paycheck to paycheck, renting a room and driving a beat down Toyota you may feel safe as you're not a tasty target but cross paths with the wrong person and you're looking at a few miserable years.

This is the key reason why I hate playing with minors. They can't form consent and person dropping them in your sights may just turn on you if the payday sounds right and why I don't like facing off against players with safety glasses.

You can talk all you want about how those two cases made their own beds but in reality if you participate in their negligence you're leaving your flank open. Airsoft is pretty grey activity it is hard to create a shield that can fit on the back of a blank sheet of paper.

[CR0M]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

This is one of the reasons I am so keen on WWII games.. the barrier for entry is pretty high, so you have a greater likelihood that everyone in attendance is on the same page with respect to what they want out of the event.

You did it! that right there sold me on WWII games