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Need to lose 4fps lol

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Old March 8th, 2018, 16:30   #16
Kozzie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silent_lemon View Post
Cops won’t pull you over for doing 10 over, I don’t think this guy should have to go Leonardo DaVinci on his gun for 4fps, that’s inane
Quote:
Originally Posted by silent_lemon
Yes 380 is a strange limit for indoor play, it's nearly outdoor par 400fps on full auto.

Why not 390? because the limit is clearly 380, which could easily have a 1-2% grace given at any given velocity. Edit-especially go account for temperature altitude and magic

380 x 1% would be 4fps, and would remain 4 fps all the way up to 400fps. This isnt a coke vs pepsi challenge guys, theres no difference.
I would tend to agree, generally there should be some sort of leeway if you're just a few fps over. In this case however, 380 fps is already quite high (by 30 fps) for typical CQB limits in the area. Think of it like this, Seige operates with a hard cap and the leeway is already built into their higher than normal limit. You want to be understanding of the Shooter but you also need to consider the Shootee.

Even if you allow 1-2% in leeway (or whatever leeway you want) you're still setting a hard cap, it's just unadvertised at 1-2% over the soft cap. Either way, you have to draw the line somewhere. If Siege set a soft cap at 375 fps and allowed leeway up to a hard cap of 380 fps, it wouldn't be any different. It just seems that way because OP is so close to the hard cap.

TBH IDK why anyone needs that fps at the engagement distances they have there, 320 fps is more than fine for that place. I wouldn't exactly say you need to be Da Vinci to cut your spring, it's not really that big of a deal.

Last edited by Kozzie; March 8th, 2018 at 18:08.. Reason: Add second quote
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Old March 8th, 2018, 23:35   #17
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There usually was leeway, but the hard tip for FPS is the limit, is the limit, is the limit. As mentioned before “380 isn’t the goal”, it’s a HARD LIMIT. Being 380 exactly means some days your gun will be 381. Start by getting your gun performing the way you need it for indoor play, this, like everything else starts with hop and barrel group and BBs (quality and weight). Once you have your gun shooting accurately/reliably, look to see if you can intelligently get a little more precision out of it. There’s nothing saying you can’t tune it for best results. Although FPS can, but doesn’t always help with overall performance, performance deficiencies are usually associated with other things first. A velocity related issue is BB weight, as increased velocity can (but doesn’t always) help with pushing out heavier rounds and heavier rounds typically perform better. So, let’s say your gun is performing fine, but you think it can do better and the FPS is a little low. Try a tighter bore barrel and a heavier weight. This will increase your overall velocity, or at least your joules, and get you closer to the limit without likely going over. From here you can look at better hop-ups, higher quality rounds, better internals and cycling parts, etc, to tune up your gun from there. This’ll also likely leave you with an FPS buffer to tinker in the future that you won’t have if your gun is running 379.5 with a 380 limit.

The gun itself is the owners respinsibility, not the fields to be lenient or give special consideration to. There is no excuse about being over that ends with you being able to field a hot gun, especially when it’s shit simple to be under the limit.
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Old March 9th, 2018, 00:25   #18
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Like I said, easiest way is to just cycle the gun.
Grease will move around, the spring will wear in.
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Old March 30th, 2018, 17:15   #19
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Originally Posted by Feels View Post
Field I play in has a 380fps limit (Siege Airsoft in toronto). Got a new M100 for my AM014 because my M90 was shooting 320 and fuck that and now its shooting 381-385. Anyway I can lose these few fps fairly easy?
Put a couple wraps of Teflon tape around the end of the hop UP unit where the nozzle slides in to create a SLIGHT gap and it will drop your gps slightly each wrap u add.. it's a temp fix but will get you field legal for the day.

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Old March 30th, 2018, 17:17   #20
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Originally Posted by silent_lemon View Post
Cops won’t pull you over for doing 10 over, I don’t think this guy should have to go Leonardo DaVinci on his gun for 4fps, that’s inane


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He also doesn't have to play at the max end of the LIMIT.. he can use an m90 spring and be under the MAX fps.. it's set for safety

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Old March 30th, 2018, 18:17   #21
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Maybe they planned on a limit of 375fps and 380 accounts for those people only 3-4fps over the limit?

Fuck airsofters are goddamn retarded.
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Old March 30th, 2018, 20:46   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silent_lemon View Post
Cops won’t pull you over for doing 10 over, I don’t think this guy should have to go Leonardo DaVinci on his gun for 4fps, that’s inane


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I'm going to tell you this right now. If they could they would.

Why? Because everyone does it. Everyone litters, but that doesn't make it OK to do.

Same for speeding. Just because everyone is doing it it doesn't mean it's okay. If you live in a populated city or literally anywhere in North America where we hire 2-3 cops for every 5 that's retiring then we already don't have enough cops as it is. There's a reason why the turnover rate is over 66% in the first year alone.

If they had enough man power speeding enforcement would be placed in full effect but it isn't because although the law is posted there, it is *unenforceable*.

This is why you don't compare speeding with airsoft velocity. Because instead of 10 000 cops for policing 3.5 million or w.e bs stat the population Toronto is, for example, you have 5 people for every 40 or every 80 idiot who thinks it's okay to build a gun at max for when one at 300 will do exactly the same for indoor purposes.

Now compare that ratio to a platoon of 25 people in a division that is maybe 100 000 in driving population. Not realistically enforcable when you look at it like that, now is it?

Without getting too philosophical, I abhorr utilitarians to an extent, but I absolutely hate the "if everyone else is doing it then that must make it okay".

Tl;Dr you don't compare speeding to airsoft because you can't enforce speeding like you can airsoft. Just because others do something that doesn't make it okay.
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Last edited by RainyEyes; March 30th, 2018 at 20:53..
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Old March 31st, 2018, 00:28   #23
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Need to lose 4fps lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proliphic View Post
He also doesn't have to play at the max end of the LIMIT.. he can use an m90 spring and be under the MAX fps.. it's set for safety

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It’s not for safety, 1% of the max FPS over the limit, is for liability. A hot gun I would consider to be far more powerful than supposed FPS. Shoot some skin, no difference other than words and liability.

I guess I hail from a simpler, considerate and more lenient era.


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Last edited by silent_lemon; March 31st, 2018 at 00:30..
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Old March 31st, 2018, 01:00   #24
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FPS limits set for saftey in terms of damage to skin are kind of hilarious, you can shoot at incredibly high fps >500 before you cause any permanent damage to skin. The reason(s) fps limits are set are ussually:

1) insurance
2) safety with regards to eye protection

1) should be obvious to everyone
2) if we set a minimum eye protection limit we need to set an fps limit that causes guns to fire bbs with less energy then what the eye pro is rated for, for obvious reasons. Typically in Canada it is ANSI 87.1+ which is rated for roughly 2.9J (bare with me its been a long time since I did the math on that) ergo when we set an fps limit of 420 we leave are selves a nice safety gap of 1.3j. Wether that gap is big enough for you is up to you to decide...

But that is mostly why we set fps dont fool yourself into thinking that an fps limit is there to protect your skin.

I also remember reading on the old JOC forum that the indoor limit of 325fps was chosen because supposedly someone had found information that I think like 330 fps or something along those lines was the required amount of energy with a .20g bb to penetrate an eye and the idea was that this would prevent serious injury if someones eye pro where to come off in an indoor game. It should be noted and obvious that IF this information is correct, just because the bb doesnt penetrate the eye itself doesnt mean there isnt potential to cause SERIOUS eye damage.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderCactus View Post
I think that's the direction I should have gone with this one though.
gen1 - I can't see shit
gen2 - I see LOTS of green, but not many people
gen3 - Nobody wants to play with me because I'm an elitist asshole now
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Old March 31st, 2018, 11:00   #25
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I also remember reading on the old JOC forum that the indoor limit of 325fps was chosen because supposedly someone had found information that I think like 330 fps or something along those lines was the required amount of energy with a .20g bb to penetrate an eye and the idea was that this would prevent serious injury if someones eye pro where to come off in an indoor game.
Something like that ...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3217394/

Quote:
The enucleated eyes began to experience lens dislocations when the KE of the projectile was approximately 0.75Nm, and retinal injuries when the KE was approximately 1.20Nm.
1 Joule = 1 Nm ... So rounded figures gets us to ...
  • 0.2g BB @ 0.75J = 280 fps or 85m/s
  • 0.2g BB @ 1.2J = 360 fps or 110m/s
  • 0.25g BB @ 0.75J = 255 fps or 77m/s
  • 0.25g BB @ 1.2J = 320 fps or 98m/s
  • 0.3g BB @ 0.75J = 230 fps or 70m/s
  • 0.3g BB @ 1.2J = 295 fps or 89m/s

Black means lens dislocation and surgery, red means it made it to your retina.

Last edited by JimCanuck; March 31st, 2018 at 11:05.. Reason: Removed duplicate statement ... woops!
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Old April 4th, 2018, 10:01   #26
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as mentioned before, its a limit, not a goal. hell my ak shoots 247 measured on .2's and still pushes .3g bbs out to 200 feet with maybe a 6 inch grouping. have I bothered to increase the velocity because its shooting that low? HELL NO! why? because its shooting the way I want it to, its getting the same range, if not just slightly more than most people I play with, and no one will be complaining about the velocity my gun shoots.
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Old April 4th, 2018, 20:58   #27
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A wider bore barrel would drop that much FPS easily.
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Old April 5th, 2018, 23:31   #28
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Originally Posted by JimCanuck View Post
Something like that ...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3217394/



1 Joule = 1 Nm ... So rounded figures gets us to ...
  • 0.2g BB @ 0.75J = 280 fps or 85m/s
  • 0.2g BB @ 1.2J = 360 fps or 110m/s
  • 0.25g BB @ 0.75J = 255 fps or 77m/s
  • 0.25g BB @ 1.2J = 320 fps or 98m/s
  • 0.3g BB @ 0.75J = 230 fps or 70m/s
  • 0.3g BB @ 1.2J = 295 fps or 89m/s

Black means lens dislocation and surgery, red means it made it to your retina.
Good to know, and since (light) projectiles lose energy rapidly once leaving the barrel if a gun was shooting around the 320 mark /w .20g bbs or lower you would have a pretty good chance of not penetrating the retina, so for indoors an fps limit of 320 does actually have pretty good justification.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderCactus View Post
I think that's the direction I should have gone with this one though.
gen1 - I can't see shit
gen2 - I see LOTS of green, but not many people
gen3 - Nobody wants to play with me because I'm an elitist asshole now
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Old April 6th, 2018, 11:16   #29
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Like most people said in here. 380 is a Limit not a Goal... You can shoot plenty under if you would like. What is the big difference for you to shoot from 350 on .2 and 380 on .2? FPS thinking that split second of bb travel is going to save you? The limit is based off of .2 only btw... after chrono and When you shoot on .25 and .28... you are no where near 380 but if you are then you are shooting stupid hot.

Put your gun to shoot 350 / 360 on .2 and don't worry about it because this only means you don't have to change the spring to go play at Ultimate Airsoft as well.

Their insurance and liability covers them up to 380fps on .2 which is at risk when you play 4 FPS over. Just cause of your 1% grace they can potentially get sued and lose their insurance which only means...
1) They have to find another insurance which is hard already especially being flagged
2) Insurance goes up which means Siege pricing goes up

Are you really willing to do that to a local field and cause the ripple effect for your 1% grace so that you don't have to change a spring?

Last edited by Jchoi; April 6th, 2018 at 11:19..
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Old April 6th, 2018, 13:05   #30
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Originally Posted by Jchoi View Post
Like most people said in here. 380 is a Limit not a Goal... You can shoot plenty under if you would like. What is the big difference for you to shoot from 350 on .2 and 380 on .2? FPS thinking that split second of bb travel is going to save you? The limit is based off of .2 only btw... after chrono and When you shoot on .25 and .28... you are no where near 380 but if you are then you are shooting stupid hot.

Put your gun to shoot 350 / 360 on .2 and don't worry about it because this only means you don't have to change the spring to go play at Ultimate Airsoft as well.

Their insurance and liability covers them up to 380fps on .2 which is at risk when you play 4 FPS over. Just cause of your 1% grace they can potentially get sued and lose their insurance which only means...
1) They have to find another insurance which is hard already especially being flagged
2) Insurance goes up which means Siege pricing goes up

Are you really willing to do that to a local field and cause the ripple effect for your 1% grace so that you don't have to change a spring?
Higher FPS is for outdoor games and shooting through brush:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5dve7vAY9I

You'll get better performance out of heavier bb's though.

If you're playing indoors it doesn't matter.
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