Airsoft Canada
http://triggerairsoft.com/shop/

Go Back   Airsoft Canada > Information Center > Newbie Tank
Home Forums Register Gallery FAQ Calendar
Retailers Community News/Info International Retailers IRC Today's Posts

FPS Limits at fields with hop up on or off?

:

Newbie Tank

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 31st, 2013, 18:21   #16
ThunderCactus
Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture!
 
ThunderCactus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Yep, that does happen on some setups
Another reason to have the quick reference chart on the chrono. Cause then you're not holding up the line for 15 seconds every time someone has a different ammo weight lol
ThunderCactus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2013, 18:27   #17
Blackthorne
A Total Bastard
 
Blackthorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Consecon, Ontario
Send a message via Skype™ to Blackthorne
http://msed.bbbastard.com/ATP/01-c-01.htm

ATP - Kinetic Energy

Section I-C: Kinetic Energy


Read through this. Its a bit hard to digest, but the bottom line is even without the hop factoring in, the existing testing methods are not reliable.
__________________
VINCITE OMNIMODO
Blackthorne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2013, 02:42   #18
Aj619
 
Aj619's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Hamilton On.
I think the FPS method was adopted from paintball but in paintball 300 FPS is the regulated limit because when they were orginally test the energy the paintball exerts they placed a limit on the energy the ball is allowed to exert just under 11 ft lb. whitch was the just under the ammount needed to break a finger

Essentially the FPS limits used is a missguided attempt at safety which they didn't understand. it's all about the energy and the airsoft community needs to adopt the energy standard idea that paintball first used it just so happend that 300 FPS is what the safe energy limit worked out to.
__________________
Do not shop at New 2 you Buy & Sell in Hamilton, On. Unless you want to be ripped off.
Aj619 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2013, 11:11   #19
ThunderCactus
Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture!
 
ThunderCactus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Every club has a muzzle energy limit, its just most of them go about testing the wrong way lol
Chrono's never used to have energy conversions on them
and nobody had heard of fps to energy conversions back in the day
and nobody had GBBRs that are the cornerstone of the measuring problem
So as long as you had the right cylinder to barrel combination, testing on .20s was actually pretty accurate.

But everythings being converted to muzzle energy testing now, but the only way to test it is to measure the fps of the BB you'll be using at the proper hop setting. So you're still measuring fps to find muzzle energy. Difference between testing with .20s is you're not assuming the energy gain curve with heavier ammo is linear, which is the problem.
ThunderCactus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2013, 14:55   #20
m102404
Tys
 
m102404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto
With so many gas rifles/smg and even some pistols it's really become a PITA to run chrony stations at large games. You almost need 2-3 lines for 100+ person games. One for regular AEGs...and in most cases just giving them some 0.20's to put in a mag works fine. Another for gas guns...and then you're best off doing a J coversion. And another to pitch in wherever things are slowing down.

We need MadMax @ AI to produce a J measuring pad that we can just have each player shoot it to get a "real" measurement. Put it at a set distance away...shoot it with a reference gun (for convenience it'd be mine..LOL) and then have a red or green light go off to signify a go/no go limit.

Maybe DonP isn't busy...
m102404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2013, 15:02   #21
ThunderCactus
Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture!
 
ThunderCactus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Doing conversions, by changing chrono settings or mathing it out on your phone, is what takes time.
All you're doing is converting an fps limit to a joule rating for a specific weight of BB
So the shorthand way to do it is just find the maximum joule limit on the common weights of BBs and write them all down. As long as you're under that limit, you're good.
"What weight of ammo you using?"
"xxg"
tap tap tap
all shots under the limit
get your ziptie and GTFO
ThunderCactus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2013, 15:29   #22
Styrak
 
Styrak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Saskatoon, SK
Send a message via MSN to Styrak
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderCactus View Post
Doing conversions, by changing chrono settings or mathing it out on your phone, is what takes time.
All you're doing is converting an fps limit to a joule rating for a specific weight of BB
So the shorthand way to do it is just find the maximum joule limit on the common weights of BBs and write them all down. As long as you're under that limit, you're good.
"What weight of ammo you using?"
"xxg"
tap tap tap
all shots under the limit
get your ziptie and GTFO
Except when people give you the wrong weight, either accidentally......or on purpose.
__________________

Airsoft Sales and Repair/Upgrade Services
Styrak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2013, 15:46   #23
ThunderCactus
Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture!
 
ThunderCactus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Ya but you can't test with .20s because the energy gain isn't linear
so it has to be with what they're saying they'll use
So either they lie to you about the weight they have in their mag, or you have several different weights of chrono BBs and they pick a different weight anyway, or the event has to supply all BBs of every weight to everyone and they go trade with someone else.
The only way to ensure nobody cheats the chrono is to assign ammo to people and then randomly spot check them on the field, or have everyone run the exact same weight and have special colored ammo (like orange) so it's easy to spot.

Whether you do the calculation on your phone, on the chrono, or write out all the weights on the chrono, it doesn't affect the end result, just how fast you get to it. If they want to cheat the system then they're going to try and cheat the system.
ThunderCactus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2013, 16:12   #24
Cobrajr122
2 Cent Tactical
 
Cobrajr122's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NB
I actually like the idea of the pad you shoot at.

No matter the weight of BBs used you will get a proper joule rating.

Again, nothing will stop a user from switching to a higher weight after chrono, but having something like this will make it much easier and faster to chrono everybody.
Cobrajr122 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2013, 16:23   #25
m102404
Tys
 
m102404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto
Or just go/no-go chrony everyone with 0.30's. We usually have a BBBastard at games and we just buy a couple of bags to chrony everyone with and then shoot up the rest. There'll be the odd ones that shoot a heavier weight but that's a much fewer minority.

Cheaters are always going to cheat...and there are lots of ways to do that.
m102404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2013, 18:00   #26
kalnaren
 
kalnaren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midland, Ontario
How often do you guys actually encounter people intentionally cheating with BB weight? I think I've only been to two games where it's been an issue.
__________________

Quote:
"Someone in a Prius tried to race me at a stop sign the other day. I couldn't believe it. I had him for the first 100 feet or so but I can only walk so fast."
kalnaren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2013, 18:09   #27
ThunderCactus
Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture!
 
ThunderCactus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
It was a plague when GBBRs first hit the scene, but that was more due to the lack of NPAS and education rather than BB weight.
And one typically uses heavier ammo to lower their fps to cheat, I haven't seen anyone use lighter ammo to beat the chrono yet lol
ThunderCactus is offline   Reply With Quote
ReplyTop


Go Back   Airsoft Canada > Information Center > Newbie Tank

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Airsoft Canada
http://triggerairsoft.com/shop/

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 21:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.