All other pistols are just toy junk

[LUTNIT]

The TM P226 can shoot upwards of 390fps on propane, you can build one from scratch with aftermarket parts only, though it does have some gas efficiency problems. Not metal out of the box but you have a lot of choices for metal kits. The TM Hi-Cappa is similar, every single part in the gun down to the tiniest little bit can be bought aftermarket.

[Lakonian]

Originally Posted by kalnaren

Last time I checked, Apple didn't make GBB's.

LOL

I find you can't go wrong with a TM based Hicapa.

[Crunchmeister]

Seems like someone needs a bit of education in terms of what makes a good gun. It's not all dependent on velocity. Accuracy and dependability are the 2 key factors that make a good GBB. And sadly, the KWA PTP line have proven to be less than reliable, and WE is nothing but a budget, entry level gun.And even for entry-level, WE isn't what great. Yes, the WE Hi Capa can be fully upgraded with TM parts, which is a big bonus. As already mentioned, the WE Luger is also a beast of a gun - well built, powerful, and accurate. But WE are still a low-end company.

If you're looking for a good quality GBB, companies to look at are TM and KSC. Both are plastic, but easily upgradable with metal slides and / or full metal body kits. They're considerably more expensive than other pistols, but very reliable and accuract. Western Arms are also top of the line. However, their guns are easily damages using propane, so unless you have one of their models that have metal slides available, you're stuck using duster which leaves them in the 220-240 fps range. And to me, that's rather slow. While velocity shouldn't be the determining factor in which gun to get, I do feel that they're too slow to be really competitive as gaming guns even though their accuracy and reliability surpass almost every other GBB on the market.

Originally Posted by kalnaren

Last time I checked, Apple didn't make GBB's.

Apple wouldn't make them idiot-proof. They'd just make GBBs trendy to the point everyone would be walking around with a nice Apple GBB sitting in a white holster...

[kalnaren]

Originally Posted by Crunchmeister

Apple wouldn't make them idiot-proof. They'd just make GBBs trendy to the point everyone would be walking around with a nice Apple GBB sitting in a white holster...

That's it! We need Apple to start marketing airsoft in Canada!







Wait....
If I ever say something like that again, you have my permission to sack me when we meet at a game.

[Crunchmeister]

Oh, and I forgot... You wouldn't be able to refill the gas in your mags yourself. You'd have to send them back to Apple (at your expense) every time you wanted a refill. And of course, if you wanted to upgrade your gun, you'd just have to toss out your current one and get a better one that costs about 3 times what other comparable guns cost. They wouldn't be that great either, but would look cool and have some kind of target acquisition system built in that would at least put BBs more or less on target for the shooter, requiring no skill whatsoever, so that when the shooter tried a REAL GBB, he could bitch and complain that it's shit because it doesn't aim for you like his Apple GBB does, therefore is an inferior product...

[kalnaren]

Originally Posted by Crunchmeister

Oh, and I forgot... You wouldn't be able to refill the gas in your mags yourself. You'd have to send them back to Apple (at your expense) every time you wanted a refill. And of course, if you wanted to upgrade your gun, you'd just have to toss out your current one and get a better one that costs about 3 times what other comparable guns cost. They wouldn't be that great either, but would look cool and have some kind of target acquisition system built in that would at least put BBs more or less on target for the shooter, requiring no skill whatsoever, so that when the shooter tried a REAL GBB, he could bitch and complain that it's shit because it doesn't aim for you like his Apple GBB does, therefore is an inferior product...

LOL.. perfect analogy. It's so true.

[safx]

Originally Posted by Crunchmeister

Western Arms are also top of the line. However, their guns are easily damages using propane, so unless you have one of their models that have metal slides available, you're stuck using duster which leaves them in the 220-240 fps range. And to me, that's rather slow. While velocity shouldn't be the determining factor in which gun to get, I do feel that they're too slow to be really competitive as gaming guns even though their accuracy and reliability surpass almost every other GBB on the market.

Your half right. Original Magna to SCW2's were
made with fragile slides and single stack frames,
(made for looks not durability) but this is far from
the case with the few SCW3's I've had my hands
on. SCW3 WA 1911a1's I fixed have the strongest
abs slides I've ever seen. WA also re-released the
Magna SV's with hybrid internals for ISPC/Airsoft
IPSC shooters. These stock Hicaps shoot around
330–350fps with a bigger kick than any other guns
I've tried from other makers.

Personally I only run WA's, cause I find the stock
internals well built/reliable and accurate. But it's
also difficult to find the parts you need when
upgrading, so if I had no WA's to choose from, TM
would be the obvious choice for a close 2nd. IMO
All the rest can go in the trash bin, I've tried them all

Saint is right— what might be right for you might
not be right for some, and there you have the
facts of life.

[Dracheous]

Originally Posted by kalnaren

Last time I checked, Apple didn't make GBB's.

hmmm... so... would they call it the iGBB or the iShoot ?


TM Hi-capa, buy it, run it, love it. Its about the only gun I can think of that has a large library of upgrades avail. that you could run stock for seasons on end never needing to fix it ((if you maintain it that is)). KSC makes some nice pistols, but most of em you need to do some upgrades to get them on the nice end of the scale.

Originally Posted by kalnaren

That's it! We need Apple to start marketing airsoft in Canada!


Wait....
If I ever say something like that again, you have my permission to sack me when we meet at a game.

Can we just smack you for that one?

[8skippy40]

WE is poop. i had one and that thing fell apart fast.
currently running a KJW sig 226. really nice. all metal. really needs a tightbore though.

[Rumpel Felt]

I've had more GBB's that I loved and worked beautifully than not. None of them were KWA or WE.

Good GBB's come from KSC, KJW and TM usually. TM are most frustrating because to make them sexually attractive you have to replace almost everything except a few little bits and pieces that other companies are too.... dumb? to make.

Case in point, the "TM" P226 which I shall rightfully call the Guarder P226 I had. Was a complete beast and probably the most realistic handgun I've ever had. But that's because damn near everything on it was replaced with Guarder parts, which in my experience have been of very good quality and decent in price. Rock solid aluminum body with nice finish, steel barrel and guide rod, 150% recoild strong, various internal parts....once assembled made one hell of a beast. The only parts actually from the TM factory were a few screws and pins and the grips which I could have bought separtely, probably to feel more realistic too. Those and the mag. So if you buy the pistol brand new, there's over $200 wasted on stuff you just replace....and wasn't worth $200 anyway (PLASTIC frame and barrel, etc.)

There is no "best GBB". They always screw you somehow. Guarder is probably the closest company to making the ideal GBB but they are just too lazy to make the final little bits.... Since they already produce 95% of the parts for most mainstream guns, why not? Other than that, you're either going to get a plastic gun that's reliable but leaves MUCH to be desired or a full metal gun that may have decent internals as well but in most cases, the metal is complete shit and the finish is pretty shitty too so theirs still awesomeness to be desired.

[mcguyver]

I always thought that KWA and KSC came out of the same factory in Taiwan.

That would make KWA the brother of KSC, but more in the "red-headed-crippled-step-brother" sort of way.

[Crunchmeister]

KWA / KSC are basically the same guns. KSC are made in Japan, have full trades, and come with ABS slides. KWA are made in Taiwan, have metal slides and no trades. So basically the same gun.

However, the PTP are different guns completely. While they're the more realistic guns, they're also more expensive and have been reported to be more problematic (at least the 1st generation) than other KWA guns. They're not compatible with other aftermarket parts and incompatible with any other magazines, and PTP mags are hard to come by.

[safx]

Guarder "upgrades" for WA and TM are crap.
All the internals I've had the displeasure of
replacing were less durable than the original.
stock parts. I've also seen the fragility of
their crap-cast aluminum kits. Had one of
the TM 1911a1 kits, and the thin areas could
be snapped with your fingers, lots of little
air bubbles.

Guarder sells most of the cheapest GBB
"upgrades" you can buy, and they are cheap
for a reason.

Guarder is the WE of the parts world.

[mcguyver]

KSC and KWA are not exactly the same. I used to come across the odd mixing of the two, same models, and the KWA failed first and most often. The situation that comes to mind was the G18c. All the KWAs broke the rocket valve, and only 1 of the KSCs did. Both were plastic slide models, and had the same box even (except no KSC logo on the KWA).

But this was 4 years ago, I'm sure things are all different now.

[Spawn28]

funny i bought a WE High cappa 2 years ago and fired at least 10,000-20'000 rounds threw it and guess what not a single problem at all.I've even dropped it on concrete and still works fine the mags arent the best but hey what do ya do.

Buy what you like and what fits your budget
TM
KWA
KSC
KJW
WE
they all break eventually and some are lemons fromthe factory this is airsoft get used to it