Airoft sniper test

Drache · July 30th, 2008, 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

There's really nothing you can do about this, all you can do if someone is a bad sniper is ask them to reduce the FPS, ask them to change guns, or worst case scenario (like they just wanna hurt people) is ban them from the field.

Often the wind does take your BB off it's path, and sudden gusts of wind do come out of nowhere. But it has happened that a sniper shot at me and I crouched at the last second and caught it in the ear. He apologized after and that was that.
Sometimes the persons head is all you have to shoot at. Personally I like to be damn far away if I have to hit someone in the face, and I certainly don't enjoy it.
And it's important to mention some stock chinese clone sniper rifles shoot MORE than 470fps out of the box.

Local rules state that you do NOT take headshots unless its the ONLY part of the body to be seen....

c3sk · July 30th, 2008, 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

Sometimes the persons head is all you have to shoot at. Personally I like to be damn far away if I have to hit someone in the face, and I certainly don't enjoy it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drache

Local rules state that you do NOT take headshots unless its the ONLY part of the body to be seen....

There is always a risk involved, and depending on whom I'm playing with, I can calculate that risk myself (wearing face protection for example)

Like ThunderCactus, If all you give me is a head to work with (very rare) I will try my best to hit a protected area - or just wait for a better shot.. why rush things? I would much rather have the player walk away without injury.

I think a big part of a snipers role on the field (doesn't matter what fps) is to be able to calculate the risks of his/her action before making the choice. If you are doing your job correctly, you should have perfect control over the situation - and you will be able to decide when and where you will hit the target.

Ronan · July 30th, 2008, 02:07

I'm actually more worried about people pimping up their AEG for crazy unrealistic ROF... i have on more than one occasion been spread by those 'high ROF' AEG's.. its sure isn't fun to take 40-60 bb's in the face, throat and stomack in 1-2 seconds...

pusangani · July 30th, 2008, 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronan

I'm actually more worried about people pimping up their AEG for crazy unrealistic ROF... i have on more than one occasion been spread by those 'high ROF' AEG's.. its sure isn't fun to take 40-60 bb's in the face, throat and stomack in 1-2 seconds...

lol yeah some guys' AEG's are like laser guns, just a constant beam of plastic

jesster202 · July 30th, 2008, 03:23

yeah and now lipo is really here its scarry because anything that can take lipo will have that high rof

Drake · July 30th, 2008, 06:12

Crazy ROF is easily kept in check with low/real cap mags.

And the overall quality of the game increases when there's no one spooging streams of 300 BB "bursts" all over the place. "Not everyone can afford a bunch of locaps" argument: Refer to rule #1 (airsoft isn't a cheap hobby, deal with it/get STAR realcaps).

Crunchmeister · July 30th, 2008, 09:06

And really, it does all come down to who's pulling the trigger. Be it a sniper rifle, AEG or LMG, it's all about the shooter. I'd be personally far more worried with a noob firing an AEG at 350 fps than an experienced sniper shooting 450+ fps. Yes, I MIGHT get hit in the head / face / neck by the sniper, but more than likely, he's making every effort to hit my centre of mass and not my head.

Yes, accidents will happen. Our BBs are affected by the smallest things like wind, a leaf, twig, etc. And a BB will go off course, regardless of the gun being shot. We all need to accept that risk when we step out onto the field. We already have our informal rules about who is and isn't allowed to snipe. We have a small enough community that people get known really quickly, and if someone is a problem player, be it sniper or otherwise, matters will be taken care of. IMO, that's more than adequate. There's no need to regulate the shit out of what we do.

twsmith · July 30th, 2008, 10:52

Ok, who threw the fucking rock!

When I received my first bleeder from a gas sniper rifle I decided to buy a gas sniper rifle. When I gave my first bleeder to someone else I decided to go back to an AEG. The bleeder I received was from a former military person with tonnes of experience but the KJW mark 1 Carbines aren't incredibly accurate and his shot pegged me in the forehead from about 25 feet. I had the same problem when I was playing but I can't blame the gun (KJW M700). I aimed for the guy's chest and he happened to duck as I pulled the trigger resulting in the bb nailing him in the top of the head.

Regardless of who/what is to blame, it's no fun when people start getting hurt and I voluntarily chose to switch back to an AEG. Some fields/clubs (including NIA games in PG) expect you to stop using a hot/upgraded gun if you cause someone an injury. This is intended as a safety rule not as a punishment. Maybe it was the wind, maybe he crossed in front of your line of fire but regardless of who/what is to blame; it has become unsafe to use that gun at that particular time. Maybe next time you're out the game will be more spread out or there won't be any wind and it'll be safe to try it again, but for that particular day the gun has been deemed unsafe.

Phalanix · July 30th, 2008, 10:57

That's what the MED's are for, so these "accidents" don't happen, or reduced to minimal. If you shoot someone outside the MED, and the wind blew the BB up and the guy chips a tooth, no one's going to blame the shooter. An accident is just that, an accident, something you cannot predict.

Each locale have their own set of rules, regulations, and we may not see eye to eye on many things, but safety should always be our number one concern. That's the primary reason for these "regulations", it also lets us know who is a trusted player among the community. If you're a new player, you probably wouldn't know who Sha Do is, the certification level we set would let the player know Sha Do is a well respected player within the community and is trusted with the privilege of using a higher velocity BA (just using Sha Do as an example).

Injuries occur even with stock guns, so the users of such a hot BA's would be held to a higher standard of safety regulation.

With these said, there are many out there I wouldn't even feel comfortable shooting me using a 350fps gun. But with players like Sha Do and Barf? Hell, they can shoot at me using a 700fps BA if they want.

"Sniping" or "Sniper" has always been a sensitive topic, whether in airsoft or paintball. lol

Sha Do · July 30th, 2008, 16:37

WOW, this thread is really rolling....
Anyways, I'm glad to see so many different thoughts on this issue, and am especially glad to see that everything is being kept very civilized.

Several points to approach;
1-Not all fields will physically accomidate higher than 500 FPS with 0.20s (Flag Raiders and Wasaga will not) because the fields are just too small.
These fields should be kept to below 500 FPS and decided by the game host.
But also keep in mind, that there are much larger fields in existance (Quebec and the prarries have some huge expanses of flat open fields) that will easily accomidate any FPS. And so long as the operator keeps a MED in mind, and the FPS limit is posted by the host, all should be good.

2-I quite often use my BA to out range AEGs at almost every out door scrim, and you know what? I still only get 2-4 kills before I get hit. Yeah its funny, but no one complains because they are forced to work better tactics and work as a team, and the opposing team also tends to have a BA that balances out this advantage.
Remember that a BA has always been allowed a higher FPS to off set the lacking ROF.

3-I specifically tell any people that ask me about buying a BA that they should have a "back up" AEG just incase (ie, buy one first, then get your BA). This way if the winds are to gusty, or too strong to "snipe" safely with the hot BA, they can always switch to their AEG. It also works out well if your BA or a team mates primary goes down.

4-Mil Sim games are when snipers get to really do their thing, and a host should restrict the number of snipers per team, and restrict their levels.
For example, large milsim game is going to be hosted somewhere in Quebec on a 200 acre field. The host decides that it can accomidate a 550 FPS limit.
Sign up is capped at 100 players (50 per side), with each team being allowed 2 BA snipers at 550 FPS max, 3 BA snipers at 500 FPS max, and anyone else is allowed the normally accepted 450 FPS if they are using a BA.
The available slots for these "positions" would be "applied" for by the player, and the host would decide who or who does not get the position (ie, a new player would NOT get a 550 FPS position).
This works out to 4% of the teams total force as snipers, and 6% as sharp shooters, with equal numbers on each team as so neither team has an unfair advantage.

Having too many snipers on a team can be, and usually is, detrimental that teams success, but have a couple of good ones will always help.

Just food for thought.
SHA DO

FOX_111 · July 30th, 2008, 17:30

As seen in OP SwiftSord, too much snipers put the team in a very defensive and non manuvering position. Just on my squad, we where 5 snipers out of about 10 players. There was so many snipers that day on both side, it was not even funny. Most of them had the new cheap L96 type rifle pre-upgraded to 500fps (with .20g).

So I saw a bunch of guys running with their rifle, and stoping just out of range of AEG on flat open ground to lob rounds at them. I don't call this sniping really, but it's part of the game in thoses situations.

Anyway, I'm for a more organised way of managing snipers in milsims and putting a standard of operation to allow a more realistic and safe use of that skill. That's a main part of my clinic: improving the workflow of snipers in teams.

twsmith · July 30th, 2008, 18:02

Not sniping at all as far as I'm concerned. Sniping should involve both stealth and accuracy not just some moron standing in the open firing pot shots. We weren't playing sim revolutionary war, it was supposed to be a tactical milsim with objectives.

I guess I'm bitching more about poor team balancing than anything.
In our case one side had all the snipers and they just stood in the open, out of range. They pretty much made their team ineffective as they were supposed to be assaulting a defended position and they couldn't assault with bolt action sniper rifles. So they went for targets of opportunity (basically our team members who got sick of waiting for them to attack and decided to charge them) until the remainder of the sniper's team got sick of getting wiped out when they assaulted and the entire team just quit playing and walked back to the vehicles. It was the lamest end to a "milsim" I have ever seen and I should have been happy as I was on the winning side. To me it just took all the sim out of milsim and basically wrecked the game. I guess we should have split the snipers up better to force the snipers to use stealth against each other and to give the sniper's team more assault capability.

All-important team balancing!

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOX_111

So I saw a bunch of guys running with their rifle, and stoping just out of range of AEG on flat open ground to lob rounds at them. I don't call this sniping really, but it's part of the game in thoses situations.

Armandhammer · July 30th, 2008, 18:26

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=59734

Here is a thread I made some time back, some posts on it can prove to be very useful on this thread topic.

twsmith · July 30th, 2008, 18:48

Thanks there's some good info. in that thread as well. I forgot that my favourite part of sniping was getting in close and switching to the sidearm anyway!

Deadlyliving · July 31st, 2008, 16:54

There should just be a dedicated spotter with the sniper then they could work in sync for two levels of engagements(sp?) after someone gets within the MED range of the sniper just get the spotter to take over with the shooting for a while. that seems like a lot better of an idea than breaking off or switching to a side arm. plus the spotter spotting for the sniper haha:P either way, there are other ways to get around things, not saying it should be an applied rule or anything but i think its a good way to bring someone into sniping, to get more used to MED's and to better their patience and overall skill.
my two cents.

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July 30th, 2008, 03:23	#50
jesster202 Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: London Ontario	yeah and now lipo is really here its scarry because anything that can take lipo will have that high rof __________________ *MY COLLECTION* *AEG* M4 coustom full metal with king arms metal body //\\ Galaxy MP5 PDW *GAS/SPRING* KJW M9 FULLY UPGRADED //\\KWA FULL SIZE USP //\\ TF MAC11 *GEAR* Coyote Brown CIRAS

July 30th, 2008, 06:12	#51
Drake E-01 Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Montreal, QC	Crazy ROF is easily kept in check with low/real cap mags. And the overall quality of the game increases when there's no one spooging streams of 300 BB "bursts" all over the place. "Not everyone can afford a bunch of locaps" argument: Refer to rule #1 (airsoft isn't a cheap hobby, deal with it/get STAR realcaps). __________________

July 30th, 2008, 09:06	#52
Crunchmeister Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In your bedroom going though your underwear drawer	And really, it does all come down to who's pulling the trigger. Be it a sniper rifle, AEG or LMG, it's all about the shooter. I'd be personally far more worried with a noob firing an AEG at 350 fps than an experienced sniper shooting 450+ fps. Yes, I MIGHT get hit in the head / face / neck by the sniper, but more than likely, he's making every effort to hit my centre of mass and not my head. Yes, accidents will happen. Our BBs are affected by the smallest things like wind, a leaf, twig, etc. And a BB will go off course, regardless of the gun being shot. We all need to accept that risk when we step out onto the field. We already have our informal rules about who is and isn't allowed to snipe. We have a small enough community that people get known really quickly, and if someone is a problem player, be it sniper or otherwise, matters will be taken care of. IMO, that's more than adequate. There's no need to regulate the shit out of what we do. __________________

July 30th, 2008, 10:52	#53
twsmith Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sicamous	Ok, who threw the fucking rock! When I received my first bleeder from a gas sniper rifle I decided to buy a gas sniper rifle. When I gave my first bleeder to someone else I decided to go back to an AEG. The bleeder I received was from a former military person with tonnes of experience but the KJW mark 1 Carbines aren't incredibly accurate and his shot pegged me in the forehead from about 25 feet. I had the same problem when I was playing but I can't blame the gun (KJW M700). I aimed for the guy's chest and he happened to duck as I pulled the trigger resulting in the bb nailing him in the top of the head. Regardless of who/what is to blame, it's no fun when people start getting hurt and I voluntarily chose to switch back to an AEG. Some fields/clubs (including NIA games in PG) expect you to stop using a hot/upgraded gun if you cause someone an injury. This is intended as a safety rule not as a punishment. Maybe it was the wind, maybe he crossed in front of your line of fire but regardless of who/what is to blame; it has become unsafe to use that gun at that particular time. Maybe next time you're out the game will be more spread out or there won't be any wind and it'll be safe to try it again, but for that particular day the gun has been deemed unsafe.

July 30th, 2008, 10:57	#54
Phalanix raaaaawrrr! Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: GTA	That's what the MED's are for, so these "accidents" don't happen, or reduced to minimal. If you shoot someone outside the MED, and the wind blew the BB up and the guy chips a tooth, no one's going to blame the shooter. An accident is just that, an accident, something you cannot predict. Each locale have their own set of rules, regulations, and we may not see eye to eye on many things, but safety should always be our number one concern. That's the primary reason for these "regulations", it also lets us know who is a trusted player among the community. If you're a new player, you probably wouldn't know who Sha Do is, the certification level we set would let the player know Sha Do is a well respected player within the community and is trusted with the privilege of using a higher velocity BA (just using Sha Do as an example). Injuries occur even with stock guns, so the users of such a hot BA's would be held to a higher standard of safety regulation. With these said, there are many out there I wouldn't even feel comfortable shooting me using a 350fps gun. But with players like Sha Do and Barf? Hell, they can shoot at me using a 700fps BA if they want. "Sniping" or "Sniper" has always been a sensitive topic, whether in airsoft or paintball. lol __________________ My ASC UserID is 666. Oh, great... Last edited by Phalanix; July 30th, 2008 at 11:08..

July 30th, 2008, 16:37	#55
Sha Do Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: No where to be seen......Hillsburgh	WOW, this thread is really rolling.... Anyways, I'm glad to see so many different thoughts on this issue, and am especially glad to see that everything is being kept very civilized. Several points to approach; 1-Not all fields will physically accomidate higher than 500 FPS with 0.20s (Flag Raiders and Wasaga will not) because the fields are just too small. These fields should be kept to below 500 FPS and decided by the game host. But also keep in mind, that there are much larger fields in existance (Quebec and the prarries have some huge expanses of flat open fields) that will easily accomidate any FPS. And so long as the operator keeps a MED in mind, and the FPS limit is posted by the host, all should be good. 2-I quite often use my BA to out range AEGs at almost every out door scrim, and you know what? I still only get 2-4 kills before I get hit. Yeah its funny, but no one complains because they are forced to work better tactics and work as a team, and the opposing team also tends to have a BA that balances out this advantage. Remember that a BA has always been allowed a higher FPS to off set the lacking ROF. 3-I specifically tell any people that ask me about buying a BA that they should have a "back up" AEG just incase (ie, buy one first, then get your BA). This way if the winds are to gusty, or too strong to "snipe" safely with the hot BA, they can always switch to their AEG. It also works out well if your BA or a team mates primary goes down. 4-Mil Sim games are when snipers get to really do their thing, and a host should restrict the number of snipers per team, and restrict their levels. For example, large milsim game is going to be hosted somewhere in Quebec on a 200 acre field. The host decides that it can accomidate a 550 FPS limit. Sign up is capped at 100 players (50 per side), with each team being allowed 2 BA snipers at 550 FPS max, 3 BA snipers at 500 FPS max, and anyone else is allowed the normally accepted 450 FPS if they are using a BA. The available slots for these "positions" would be "applied" for by the player, and the host would decide who or who does not get the position (ie, a new player would NOT get a 550 FPS position). This works out to 4% of the teams total force as snipers, and 6% as sharp shooters, with equal numbers on each team as so neither team has an unfair advantage. Having too many snipers on a team can be, and usually is, detrimental that teams success, but have a couple of good ones will always help. Just food for thought. SHA DO __________________ SHOOT TO KILL......... WITH COMPASSION

July 30th, 2008, 17:30	#56
FOX_111 Le Roi des poissons d'avril Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Terrebonne, Québec	As seen in OP SwiftSord, too much snipers put the team in a very defensive and non manuvering position. Just on my squad, we where 5 snipers out of about 10 players. There was so many snipers that day on both side, it was not even funny. Most of them had the new cheap L96 type rifle pre-upgraded to 500fps (with .20g). So I saw a bunch of guys running with their rifle, and stoping just out of range of AEG on flat open ground to lob rounds at them. I don't call this sniping really, but it's part of the game in thoses situations. Anyway, I'm for a more organised way of managing snipers in milsims and putting a standard of operation to allow a more realistic and safe use of that skill. That's a main part of my clinic: improving the workflow of snipers in teams. __________________ Vérificateur d'âge: Terrebonne

July 30th, 2008, 18:26	#58
Armandhammer Trader rating Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: York Region, Ontario	http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=59734 Here is a thread I made some time back, some posts on it can prove to be very useful on this thread topic. __________________ *"Airsoft will be taken seriously, but it will never be forgotten that airsoft is just a game. Treat every player with respect and honor."*

July 30th, 2008, 18:48	#59
twsmith Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sicamous	Thanks there's some good info. in that thread as well. I forgot that my favourite part of sniping was getting in close and switching to the sidearm anyway!

July 31st, 2008, 16:54	#60
Deadlyliving Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Clarenville, Newfoundland	There should just be a dedicated spotter with the sniper then they could work in sync for two levels of engagements(sp?) after someone gets within the MED range of the sniper just get the spotter to take over with the shooting for a while. that seems like a lot better of an idea than breaking off or switching to a side arm. plus the spotter spotting for the sniper haha:P either way, there are other ways to get around things, not saying it should be an applied rule or anything but i think its a good way to bring someone into sniping, to get more used to MED's and to better their patience and overall skill. my two cents. __________________ lawl pwnd.

Airoft sniper test

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