PBS14 gen3 opinion (or maybe gen2 ?)

[Dartaflan]

Hello,

Looking for a good monocular and those PBS14 by GSCI seem really nice on paper :
7 year warranty and 1260-1599 FOM for the most basic model (GA1 non autogated).
The problem is I can't find any review (not much on the gen2 I'm interested in either sadly), not a single youtube video other than a single one from the company to demonstrate the thermal "add-on".

Did anyone here have experience with BOTH the canadian stuff (russian I²) and US gen 3 and/or high end gen 2 ?
I've noticed russian gear gets bashed a lot on various forums (particularly when it come to gen3 I²), but I've basically never seen anything even remotely based on actual facts/numbers.

I was set on an Armasight gen2+ Nyx14 QS until I found out about GSCI and Newcon and now I'm wondering if it's worth the extra $.

[Verex]

You can contact GSCI and make an appointment to try them out.

[Amoki]

My PVS-14 was from Alpha Optics in Hamilton, ON. Very professional bunch who will spec the tubes for you.

[Derpystronk]

GSCI or Alpha will take care of you.

Russian Gen 3 tubes are fine these days and sometimes hard to tell apart from US Gen 3 tubes. Top, top top of the line Gen 3 tubes will still smoke Rus ones, but for 95% of the time they will be identical.

If you go the Gen 2 route, make sure you specify you want a Photonis tube, preferably something close to XD4 spec. If you are willing to live with a few dots in the image, you can get a unit with near Gen 3 performance at a Gen 2 price point. A nice, high quality Photonis Commercial Grade Tube is, basically, one of the best values you can get when buying in Canada.

[Dartaflan]

Originally Posted by Verex

You can contact GSCI and make an appointment to try them out.

I'd love to but way too far.

Originally Posted by Deltastronk

GSCI or Alpha will take care of you.

Russian Gen 3 tubes are fine these days and sometimes hard to tell apart from US Gen 3 tubes. Top, top top of the line Gen 3 tubes will still smoke Rus ones, but for 95% of the time they will be identical.

If you go the Gen 2 route, make sure you specify you want a Photonis tube, preferably something close to XD4 spec. If you are willing to live with a few dots in the image, you can get a unit with near Gen 3 performance at a Gen 2 price point. A nice, high quality Photonis Commercial Grade Tube is, basically, one of the best values you can get when buying in Canada.

I was actually thinking about building a custom unit with an XX1441 tube. What do you think of this one ?
Typical performance are FOM=1340, S/N=21, Sensitivity at 2850K=650 and 64lp/mm
http://www.alpha-photonics.com/produ...roducts_id=141

My concern is about very low light conditions, where Gen3 seems to be much more sensitive to light.
On the other hand, Gen2 is more rugged ...

[Derpystronk]

Originally Posted by Dartaflan

I was actually thinking about building a custom unit with an XX1441 tube. What do you think of this one ?
Typical performance are FOM=1340, S/N=21, Sensitivity at 2850K=650 and 64lp/mm
http://www.alpha-photonics.com/produ...roducts_id=141

My concern is about very low light conditions, where Gen3 seems to be much more sensitive to light.
On the other hand, Gen2 is more rugged ...

Whats the quote you are getting on the XX1441's - those are going to be the same tubes you can get from Alpha Optics (in Hamilton, not the one you linked) and GSCI and they will accommodate if you ask specifically for it.

As long as you are getting a good unit with decent specs made in the last few years, Photonis tubes are going to provide you stupid value for your dollar. I've gone through a number of them, built them for friends, and everyone's been happy with their performance. They get you 80-90% of the way to that mystical Gen 3 performance at half the price. The only times you are really going to notice a substantial difference is when there is not enough light to go around - and even then variations in Gen 3's also start coming into play (OMNI 4 vs OMNI 7 vs Filmless) - In short? They are fine and let you see in the dark when you need to.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with a Photonis tube. I've used them many times and had great experiences. What you need to be aware of is housings and how the optics in whatever you put the tube in will factor in a hell of a lot more than you think.

[Amoki]

Originally Posted by Dartaflan

I'd love to but way too far.



I was actually thinking about building a custom unit with an XX1441 tube. What do you think of this one ?
Typical performance are FOM=1340, S/N=21, Sensitivity at 2850K=650 and 64lp/mm
http://www.alpha-photonics.com/produ...roducts_id=141

My concern is about very low light conditions, where Gen3 seems to be much more sensitive to light.
On the other hand, Gen2 is more rugged ...

If you find yourself in the sort of condition where your NVG isn't effective even with a S/N 21 tube, most likely those guys without NODS can't see crap either.

Ultimately though, it is a cost-vs-function thing. Obviously the higher the s/N and sensitivity, the better. IF you can find a second-hand NODS originating from the other side of Lake Ontario with L3/Litton tubes in it, even better.

[Dartaflan]

Originally Posted by Deltastronk

Whats the quote you are getting on the XX1441's - those are going to be the same tubes you can get from Alpha Optics (in Hamilton, not the one you linked) and GSCI and they will accommodate if you ask specifically for it.

As long as you are getting a good unit with decent specs made in the last few years, Photonis tubes are going to provide you stupid value for your dollar. I've gone through a number of them, built them for friends, and everyone's been happy with their performance. They get you 80-90% of the way to that mystical Gen 3 performance at half the price. The only times you are really going to notice a substantial difference is when there is not enough light to go around - and even then variations in Gen 3's also start coming into play (OMNI 4 vs OMNI 7 vs Filmless) - In short? They are fine and let you see in the dark when you need to.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with a Photonis tube. I've used them many times and had great experiences. What you need to be aware of is housings and how the optics in whatever you put the tube in will factor in a hell of a lot more than you think.

I'm in europe actually so importing stuff from canada has its drawbacks.
I'd be willing to risk import taxes for a good gen3 unit with a 7 years warranty.
But for a photonis gen2 I'd prefer to order here somewhere.
The website I've linked sells the XX1441 tube at 1389€ (2120CAD).
As for housings, I haven't found much,a few GT-14 for sale. From what I've gathered it's decent but nothing too fancy in terms of optics.
Maybe I can order the housing in canada ?

I asked Alpha optics for a monocular and they've offered me for 2050€ (3100CAD) (+shipping) their AC6015 unit with an XX1441AH tube, which is, if I googled correctly a higher end tube that has failed tests. They guarantee 64 lp/mm minimum (other specs unknown).
The probability to pay taxes on this is quite high, so + 25% roughly :banghead:

Originally Posted by Amoki

If you find yourself in the sort of condition where your NVG isn't effective even with a S/N 21 tube, most likely those guys without NODS can't see crap either.

Good point

Originally Posted by Amoki

Ultimately though, it is a cost-vs-function thing. Obviously the higher the s/N and sensitivity, the better. IF you can find a second-hand NODS originating from the other side of Lake Ontario with L3/Litton tubes in it, even better.

I'd love to but second hand is a gamble I'm not really eager to make.
There's just now way to tell what the unit has been through. Don't get me wrong though, if someone would offer me a unit in perfect condition that was bought recently and there's a spec sheet, I'd take it

[Amoki]

If you're already in Europe, why not get it from www.actinblack.com, which is in Germany?

http://www.actinblack.com/shop/act-pvs-14/

May work out cheaper with shipping and tax, + you have access to Gen 3.

[Dartaflan]

Originally Posted by Amoki

If you're already in Europe, why not get it from www.actinblack.com, which is in Germany?

http://www.actinblack.com/shop/act-pvs-14/

May work out cheaper with shipping and tax, + you have access to Gen 3.

The price displayed (2800€) is for a gen2 photonis commercial tube, doesn't even say which one. Ridiculous.
For Gen3 FOM 1400 (again, which tube ?) it's 4140€. I don't think so.

The Canadian (Russian) gen3 is 2700€ + 25% = 3375€

[doc_pathfinders]

Dartaflan,

If you read what's on the site (no, it's not easy to find) it's a Harder digital Gen 3, which they list the specs on the FAQ

http://www.actinblack.com/faq/

I was looking at these guys for a Gen 3 PVS14 , if you have anywhere else in Europe, i'm all ears!

[Amoki]

Originally Posted by Dartaflan

The price displayed (2800€) is for a gen2 photonis commercial tube, doesn't even say which one. Ridiculous.
For Gen3 FOM 1400 (again, which tube ?) it's 4140€. I don't think so.

The Canadian (Russian) gen3 is 2700€ + 25% = 3375€

I do agree, but Canadians (and Americans, IF you can find one) are rarely going to export anything beyond FOM 1400. If a Photonis XX1441 is enough to satisfy your needs, go hard. But anything more and you'll struggle