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Squad integrity ingame?

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Old April 3rd, 2012, 14:32   #1
Long_Bong
 
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Squad integrity ingame?

Hi

One of the major issues we face when playing outdoor is maintaining squad coherency. It very hard for a CO to coordinate effort if he has no squad leader with a squad to work with. It gets complicated when squad take loss, player to back to the respawn and is now squadless... He usually walks back in the field and is not the chain of command anymore. How to work around this, in order to maintain squad integrity?

I m thinking:

1) Squad leader as mobile respawn (only for there squad member)? 2) Forcing player to respawn only when they are 5, forming new squad in the process (this could cause long waiting time in the respawn...)?

Anyone has tried any good way to maintain squad unity during the game?
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 14:43   #2
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Well actually the first major issue from that is comms. If you don't have comms, you're already fucked before starting the game.

It all depends as well as what are the objectives and rules of the game. If it's a MilSim type of game, you should have Medevacs and Casevacs if a player is hit, and there on all the squad should take the guy and bring him back to the respawn, wait a certain amount of time, and then hit the field back again.

But on the other side, if some of your teammates are holding a key emplacement, it's fucked up for them as well.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 14:58   #3
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If the leader is getting shot all the time he's doing something wrong.

You should have a 2IC who will step in when the leader is otherwise occupied.

The squad should be cohesive enough to survive without the leader and still go forward.

You don't need the whole squad on radios but the more the merrier.

Giving the leader a Mulligan because he gets shot a lot so he doesn't have to re-spawn like the rest of the unit won't make make him get better.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 15:05   #4
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Everyone should have a radio. This does not mean everyone needs to be on the radio.

There should be a command channel. This is for Squad Leaders to get into contact with Command. Not the other way round.

There should be individual squad channels. This is for squad members to communicate with each other, as well as for command to reach a specific squad leader. This is key to arrange dead squad members to regroup out in the field, or to call all squad members to return to base and reorganize.

The above is the easiest way to organize radios so that the only person who needs two radios is command. Everyone else can get by with just one radio on one channel. Squad leaders only have to change channels if they need to start a conversation with command, otherwise, command will talk on their squad channel.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 15:53   #5
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I agree that radio and discipline are 2 critical factors to improve squad cohesion. But what about mecanic / rules that could be use?

What respawn rule could help maintain squad integrity and avoid the typical: i died, go back and respawn then walk back in the game and don t try to regroup with my squad?
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 16:02   #6
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IMO...

From overall C&C for a side...down to each squad member...the SOPs should be well known (and understood, and accepted) well before. If guys are well on the ball all that's needed is a quick briefing at the game...if they're random individuals it might be a lot harder. Best thing to do is to split up the random individuals and tag them along into a squad of guys who have things worked out already.

Since each person on a squad knows the SOPs...then when they take a loss there's a way to check in with everyone, a way to quickly assess how you're doing (ammo, strength, etc...) and a decision point if you can continue or have to GTFO and regroup.

If a number of small squads are working together (or even in the same area) they might join together until things get sorted out.

So far as having guys link back up it's always a good SOP to never have a single guy go anywhere. Dead guys can head back to respawn together...live guys can head out together to regroup. A little bit of C&C can go a long way....linking guys back up with their squads, tagging them into other squads for a bit until they can hook back up, etc..

Everyone having a radio is a good thing...95% of the guys should be doing nothing but listening anyways.

Not having a plan/SOP...letting guys go off on their own...not having a way to communicate....that's the perfect combo to have guys go off and never hook back up with their squad.

That said...that all works in "milsims" and not really in an all day skirmish with a bunch of random individuals. If you've got random individuals...or even little groups of guys who don't know what's what...then tag them with other groups who do. It'll probably be a much better day for everyone.


**********edit after your last post*******
Say you've got a squad of 5-6 guys....
- if one is hit...they should just hang out and see if anyone else from their squad gets killed...or if anyone else from another squad gets killed....before they head back to respawn. Wait around (be dead though...not in the way of the fight)...don't go back alone.

- if two or more are dead...they should wait around until the fight is over. Their squad may take more losses and decide to regroup...in which case they can all head back together. Otherwise...the dead can head back together.

- if you have to head back alone...it's not a bad idea to either set the RV point to be...the place where you died (the other guys can lay low and wait)....a designated spot (maybe where your squad has stashed their packs/extra gear/etc...)...or an RV that your squad sets as you move along. Might be a designated feature...i.e. the bridge...the makeshift fort....the "big pine" (old FTF landmark). Whatever you set it to....both the squad and the respawning guys have to know to meet there...and how to get there.

Being able to communicate is obviously important.

If all that seems like a lot of waiting around...then encourage people not to rush in a get shot.

If guys aren't trying to link back up with their squad...then they're really not working together are they?

Last edited by m102404; April 3rd, 2012 at 16:14..
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 16:26   #7
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I lead from the front. I do place some some of my guys in the line of fire to protect myself as well as I'll send them into an area im curious about, but the main thing is everyone on my squad has time in te squad leader seat. That way if I am eliminated, anyone on the squad can assume command and that in itself is dependant on whom is in the best position geographically/ psychologically to assume command wether it be the 2ic or not. My team has spent alot of time in game with eachother and the lead role is fluid and shifts from person to person depending on circumstances. Of course myself and the 2ic are always "in control" and make final calls but if there is no reason to take command away from someone if theyre doing an acceptable job. we won't until their orders are followed through or we see a drastic issue. Letting them make mistakes and bad calls while leading the team helps them improve their skills in snap decisions, quick ao assessment, and dealing with the stress and indecision that clouds judgment.

But moral of the story is everyone/ anyone on your team should be able to assume command until the commander returns without arguing over who it should be, without questioning decisions as the achieving the objective should be the blinding focus.

Some squad leaders are on a power trip an dont allow team mates to infringe on their territory which is a stupid, counter productive notion, or their afriad a team mate may do a better job at leading the team, which can happen.!good calls happen and everyone is capable of them, bad calls happen as well; however what sets a leader apart is owning a bad call, being to adapt to them (realizing when to stick to your decision or to modify the origional plan to salvage a bad call into a mediocre one. A poor leader will refuse to believe he's made a bad call, refuse to change their tactics and end up failing the objective and having the squad eliminated. Luckily This is not the real military it's a game/ sport so the structured rankings and all that are ridiculous in this setting and we get to learn from our mistakes.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 16:52   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Long_Bong View Post
I agree that radio and discipline are 2 critical factors to improve squad cohesion. But what about mecanic / rules that could be use?

What respawn rule could help maintain squad integrity and avoid the typical: i died, go back and respawn then walk back in the game and don t try to regroup with my squad?
I've played games where if 3 guys get shot after 2PM they can tag each other back in as long as wind is blowing from the West and so on.

All you do is create an unwieldy rule that not everyone understands, some people re-interpret, and if you ever play with an outside group has to go out the window and you're back on your heels because the crutch is gone.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 17:29   #9
Brian McIlmoyle
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one word

Reorganization.

Reorg after every assault. Reorg after every move.

if your group is reduced to 50% strength withdraw, and RV with your respawning players. If you can hold.. do so until relieved,

Establish Fixed RV points where Respawing players can move to, out of engagements but close to the action so your unit can disengage, swing back and pick up your guys and re-enter the fight. Or you can call them in to your location from the rally point
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 18:51   #10
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Fight through the objective with what you have left in the squad, if you are killed respawn together. If you succeed hold the position and wait for the teammates to return, radio command for other reinforcements if you are thin on the ground.

Never just stop and loose any initiative you gained while a few squad members got eliminated.

Mission first.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 23:56   #11
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Spend time kicking doors together. Clear rooms effectively as a squad or 2-3 man teams. Communicate effectively. Make someone other than the team lead the comms guy on the command net w/ HQ.

Most of all have fun and bond outside of airsoft
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Old April 4th, 2012, 00:38   #12
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The way I see it, squads do things together. If you need a serious flanking manuver, call another squad to do it. That way, you are not left with a push of 3-4 guys with a flanking manuver of 3-4 guys.

When taking casualty, dead mens lay down and await being medic'ed. The livings should defend the "deads" or bring them back for treatement. If it's not possible, the whole squad, even the living, should go to respawn together. They should also report to command that they are no longer at fighting strenght and medevac'ing their dead.

If an Objective can't be left, the dead mens are brought to the objective to be held by the living. All hold untill releived by a stronger force.

There should be no "Dead man walking". Only "Dead squad leaving".
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Old April 4th, 2012, 01:35   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swatt13 View Post
I lead from the front. I do place some some of my guys in the line of fire to protect myself as well as I'll send them into an area im curious about, but the main thing is everyone on my squad has time in te squad leader seat. That way if I am eliminated, anyone on the squad can assume command and that in itself is dependant on whom is in the best position geographically/ psychologically to assume command wether it be the 2ic or not. My team has spent alot of time in game with eachother and the lead role is fluid and shifts from person to person depending on circumstances. Of course myself and the 2ic are always "in control" and make final calls but if there is no reason to take command away from someone if theyre doing an acceptable job. we won't until their orders are followed through or we see a drastic issue. Letting them make mistakes and bad calls while leading the team helps them improve their skills in snap decisions, quick ao assessment, and dealing with the stress and indecision that clouds judgment.

But moral of the story is everyone/ anyone on your team should be able to assume command until the commander returns without arguing over who it should be, without questioning decisions as the achieving the objective should be the blinding focus.

Some squad leaders are on a power trip an dont allow team mates to infringe on their territory which is a stupid, counter productive notion, or their afriad a team mate may do a better job at leading the team, which can happen.!good calls happen and everyone is capable of them, bad calls happen as well; however what sets a leader apart is owning a bad call, being to adapt to them (realizing when to stick to your decision or to modify the origional plan to salvage a bad call into a mediocre one. A poor leader will refuse to believe he's made a bad call, refuse to change their tactics and end up failing the objective and having the squad eliminated. Luckily This is not the real military it's a game/ sport so the structured rankings and all that are ridiculous in this setting and we get to learn from our mistakes.
i'm part of swatt13s team and i totally agree. i'm one of the newest members of his team and everyone gets a chance to lead a squad on skirmish days and if the need arises at away games if everyone more experienced then you is respawning or getting back and don't know whats going on yet.

for example this past sunday i was squad leader for 2 games on our skirmish day. and its a great way to learn how to lead a group. win or lose you get experience. i'm very fortunate to be on a team of experienced players that wants their players to progress and become better players/leaders.
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Old April 4th, 2012, 01:43   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOX_111 View Post
There should be no "Dead man walking". Only "Dead squad leaving".
+1 If the squad don't have enough man to hold and secure the area
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Old April 4th, 2012, 08:49   #15
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What we apply with my team:
-More than 50% loss, the squad go back to a safer zone and wait the guy from the respawn to get reinforced. They hold a position and secure a perimeter (they still a threat for the ennemy mostly lone wolf who try to flank.
-If you dead, go back to the respawn and wait for another guy from your squad.
-Never go back on the field alone.
-Be assured you have the position of your squad before leaving the respawn (no erratic search on the field).
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