Flashlights - Lasers

[Shirley]

There are many brands of flashlights out there on the market. Some from LED to xenon, functions/strobe effects, pressure switch to button, brightnesses and so on.

Flashlights are used to temporary blind enemy when in range, and engage on contact. Places where the use of flashlights would work is night games, cqb/cqc.

The cons of flashlights are that they give out your positions and your team.

Lasers come in different colours and different mW power.
Lasers are used to point, NOT to BLIND enemy. Point as in pointing where this enemy hides behind this object, not directly at the face. Sure lasers are banned from most fields, but at private games, be responsible at using a laser.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Mr.Hitman

There are many brands of flashlights out there on the market. Some from LED to xenon, functions/strobe effects, pressure switch to button, brightnesses and so on.

Flashlights are used to temporary blind enemy when in range, and engage on contact. Places where the use of flashlights would work is night games, cqb/cqc.

The cons of flashlights are that they give out your positions and your team.

Lasers come in different colours and different mW power.
Lasers are used to point, NOT to BLIND enemy. Point as in pointing where this enemy hides behind this object, not directly at the face. Sure lasers are banned from most fields, but at private games, be responsible at using a laser.

Anyone shine a laser at my direction especially my head area deserve an ass raping with a broken champagne bottle from me and that's after a beat down too, Lasers are frown upon since the huge fight at paintball city one guy almost lost his vision on his right eye because he was marked by an aiming laser. Laser have no place in an airsoft game keep it away!

[JTF27]

I disagree that laser's have no place. I think there are several practical uses to them such as marking a piece of cover an enemy might be hiding or pointing to a doorway or location you want another squad to move to with out verbal communications. All in all it is all about responsibility and safety like most things in airsoft.

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by JTF27

I disagree that laser's have no place. I think there are several practical uses to them such as marking a piece of cover an enemy might be hiding or pointing to a doorway or location you want another squad to move to with out verbal communications. All in all it is all about responsibility and safety like most things in airsoft.

Agreed. They must be cleared with the game organizer and rules must be applied.

Hitman and I have used weapon mounted lasers to great effect at night games for marking enemy movement between buildings. Keep the laser high and then bringing it onto the roof to mark it. When your team confirms the building, turn off the laser.

As with all things, moderation and responsibility will provide a safe environment for all players.

IR lasers are a completely different matter. They should not be allowed at all as those without nightvision will not know if they are marked, and eye damage can occur without the player being about to defend themselves. Also, unless NV is on, the user of the IR laser may activate it and unknowingly cause injury to themselves or others.

[Shirley]

If the owner of the field allows it, and the host does, than fine, it is allowed. If there are players who don't want lasers on the field, they can choose not to play.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Can be effective tools for target designation.. but they have to be used carefully. They should not be used for a aiming tool.


In the proper hands they can enhance the effectiveness of a group of players, in improper hands they are a risk.

So for the most part in AS context... they are a risk.

[wildcard]

The risk of accidentally tag someone in the head with a laser is just to great especially in a game doesn't matter how carefull you are. the laser that almost blind the player years ago was a beamshot laser available in any hunting supply stores at the time, i have two in my real steel glock and colt but that's only for the range.

[ujiro]

Yeah I would only really feel comfortable if it was in the hands of someone I knew to have safety in mind always who I trusted. Also, I wouldn't be comfortable if it was any sizable power output. <1mW preferably. I can't remember exactly at what point/output power it can start to damage near instantly.

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by wildcard

The risk of accidentally tag someone in the head with a laser is just to great especially in a game doesn't matter how carefull you are. the laser that almost blind the player years ago was a beamshot laser available in any hunting supply stores at the time, i have two in my real steel glock and colt but that's only for the range.

I'm not advocating their use on public fields. I am merely relating my experience with lasers during private milsims.

Obviously if there are complaints before or during the game with regards to the use of lasers, game control should step in and veto it's usage.

As a player who is highly against the use of lasers, I suggest you inform game organizers to the risks involved, and that you would like them not to allow their use. Game control can then make a decision regarding lasers. If they are allowed, you can choose not to play, or trust your fellow player.

[m102404]

Got to go with no here...teeth can be fixed, skin can heal...you don't mess with eyes.

Most of the risk comes from the players...a very small portion of the player base is properly trained and practiced with a laser (practicing at home in your bedroom does not count). Reflected energy, accidental flagging...etc...

Even seasoned guys make mistakes. Accidents happen. Asshole guys purposely shine it in your eyes...because it DOES blind you (temporary or not).

Lasers in a combat engagement are just fine....you're in a direct conflict at the highest levels. Eye damage is acceptable.

Airsoft is a game, we're playing pretend. (playing hard and going balls out...but still it's just a game)

I like my eyes...want to use them for a good long time to come.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by ShelledPants

I'm not advocating their use on public fields. I am merely relating my experience with lasers during private milsims.

Obviously if there are complaints before or during the game with regards to the use of lasers, game control should step in and veto it's usage.

As a player who is highly against the use of lasers, I suggest you inform game organizers to the risks involved, and that you would like them not to allow their use. Game control can then make a decision regarding lasers. If they are allowed, you can choose not to play, or trust your fellow player.

all the games we played here have no laser users so I'm not too worried about it beside I think majority of the laser users have either wither and die or have switch to a safer red dot or holosight system. th euse of a laser as a strategic pointer for identififying buildings where the tango are holed up is fine, it's just the few players who have them on their AEG or GBB that worries me, like I said before nomatter how carefull you are you COULD tag another player by accident.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Mr.Hitman

If the owner of the field allows it, and the host does, than fine, it is allowed. If there are players who don't want lasers in their face, they can choose not to play.

So are you saying that if you accidentally blinded another player you would be ok with it because the field owner and game controller allows it?? You are playing a game with a bunch of friends not a life or death battle why risk the vision of others so you can look cool??

[Mikhail]

Quoted from this link with references.

begin quote:

In the period from 2000 to 2008, increasing attention has been paid to the risks posed by so called laser pointers and laser pens. Typically, sales of laser pointers is restricted to either class 3A (<5 mW) or class 2 (<1 mW), depending on local regulations. For example, in the US, class 3A is the maximum permitted, unless a key actuated control or other safety features are provided[14] and in the UK and Australia, class 2 is the maximum allowed class. However, because enforcement is often not very strict, class 3A laser pointers are often available for sale even in countries where they are not allowed.

Van Norren et al. (1998)[15] could not find a single example in the medical literature of a <1 mW class II laser causing eyesight damage. Mainster et al. (2003)[16] provide one case, an 11 year old child who temporarily damaged her eyesight by holding an approximately 5 mW red laser pointer close to the eye and staring into the beam for 10 seconds, she experienced scotoma (a blind spot) but fully recovered after 3 months. Luttrulla & Hallisey (1999) describe a similar case, a 34 year old male who stared into the beam of a class IIIa red laser for 30 to 60 seconds, causing temporary central scotoma and visual field loss. His eyesight fully recovered within 2 days, at the time of his eye exam. An intravenous fundus fluorescein angiogram, a technique used by ophthalmologists to visualise the retina of the eye in fine detail, identified subtle discoloration of the fovea.

Thus, it appears that a brief 0.25-second exposure to a <5 mW laser such as found in red laser pointers does not pose a threat to eye health. On the other hand there is a potential for injury if a person deliberately stares into a beam of a class IIIa laser for few seconds or more at close range. Even if injury occurs, most people will fully recover their vision. Further experienced discomforts than these may be psychological rather than physical. With regard to green laser pointers the safe exposure time may be less, and with even higher powered lasers instant permanent damage should be expected. These conclusions must be qualified with recent theoretical observations that certain prescription medications may interact with some wavelengths of laser light, causing increased sensitivity (phototoxicity).

end quote.

Personally I would be comfortable with lasers aimed at me in the field if
a) the ratings of the lasers were limited by the field operator (see above link for complete ratings guide)

b)mature use was specified, specifically no prolonged aim at my face.

[m102404]

My testing:

My eyes hurt after the last time when some asshole shone his green laser in my eyes.

Fact #1: I did not go blind
Fact #2: The effect was temporary
Fact #3: I would have puched the f*cker in the face if I could have found him...all I could see were spots.

Conclusions:
- Lasers (weak/strong/etc....) in the hands of retards are a bad thing.
- You cannot have an open and public game while maintaining a high level of trust of good judgement between every player.

[Danke]

I don't like the lasers either as you don't know what is at the other end of the beam. If someone steps into the beam you've just zapped them.

If it's a night game then a couple quick shots of tracer will mark the target if it's in range. If it's not in range then by the time you've dawdled over it most likely will not be the target any more in a fluid situation.

For white light, flashing or strobing it is the way to go. Leaving in on someones face to pin them down is what the cops do, but if he's got ten guys with him what will they do, run like little girls or hose down the guy with the light?