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New AEG’s VS Old PTW’s

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Old February 13th, 2020, 17:07   #1
Foxer2373
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Smith Falls ON
New AEG’s VS Old PTW’s

Alright guys, been out for a long time and looking to get back in... I own a couple PTW’s still that need a tune up to be field ready.

However my question comes as I have no problem spending money and I don’t need “Realism” as I use my Real Steel for that. I’m looking for pure performance/Reliability on the field.

I know nowadays the gate mosfet will give similar if not better trigger response than older PTW’s.

What I don’t know is with Rhops being mainstream now and not Bolt action only ideas. Can an AEG reach the distance and repeatability of a PTW???

Also what are the more reliable out of the box and or upgradable AEG brands now???

Finally I have no interest in a polar star!

Thanks guys for helping a old player get back up to speed.

Also best variable speed options would be great as many fields here have different feet per second rules.

Last edited by Foxer2373; February 13th, 2020 at 17:09..
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Old February 13th, 2020, 18:28   #2
Datawraith
 
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Z (Pestobanana here on ASC) will probably chime in here at some point in time or another. Listen to him if he does.

I'll cover what you're asking first and then give my personal recommendations.

AEGs pretty much have outstripped PTWs entirely; our gearboxes and barrel groups can be tuned to give us really consistent shots and be extremely reliable with minimal maintenance. I believe RHop benefits are more for consistency and a flatter trajectory than conventional hops (which helps with perceived increased range).

There's a few fire control units that give excellent trigger response; I personally like the BTC Spectre/Chimera the most but others seem to have some success with the GATE Titan or Jefftron Leviathan.

As for brands, there's a lot of options and it depends on the platform. If you're looking for an AR/M4 with the nicest externals with a quality gearbox, VFC is still the best brand. A nice reliable out of the box AR would be Maple Armouries. Their ARs come somewhat pre-upgraded and performs decently. If you're looking for an AK with decent externals and a quality gearbox, LCT is my recommendation. AFAIK, Real Sword AKs are nicer externally but they have some quirks with the internals. VFC AKs are beautiful externally but they're rare as hell as they've been discontinued since forever.

As for adjusting FPS, some options have quick spring change but that term covers a lot. For some systems, it means a single screw needs to be undone and the spring can be swapped. For others, it may mean the gearbox has a screw on the back that holds the spring in, but may require the gearbox to be removed from the receiver to change the spring. Neither of my ARs have any of that capability (old school VFC ARs) but I haven't really ever needed to change my springs (I just run all my guns at 375 fps; low enough for indoors at Siege and high enough for good performance outdoors).

Since you say you have no problem spending money and don't need realism, I'd say get a high quality base gun and hit up Z at Blackblitz in Cambridge and just have him do a full ZTW build for you (I've got one and it's awesome; they are expensive though). Get a VFC if you want an AR/M4 or a LCT if you want an AK. If you want a subgun, VFC has a new MP5 released or ASG has the CZ Scorpion which is pretty good out of the box.

The sport has changed a lot since PTWs reigned supreme. There's a lot of good guns on the market now; I think you'll like the new stuff available. Happy hunting!
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Old February 13th, 2020, 18:41   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxer2373 View Post
However my question comes as I have no problem spending money and I don’t need “Realism” as I use my Real Steel for that. I’m looking for pure performance/Reliability on the field.

I know nowadays the gate mosfet will give similar if not better trigger response than older PTW’s.
A well built AEG will be much more efficient than a PTW and have better trigger response. PTWs do not have precocking, and have an extremely shitty motor design in order to fit inside a real sized grip. Motor braking which you can't really turn off on a PTW is also really, really bad for the already kinda shitty motor. And yes I've seen rewound PTW motors fail as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxer2373 View Post
What I don’t know is with Rhops being mainstream now and not Bolt action only ideas. Can an AEG reach the distance and repeatability of a PTW???
AEG tolerances are still a bit worse than PTWs, but the barrel and hop up technology is way better now. I have not compared an upgraded PTW and an upgraded AEG side by side in years, but I have reason to think an AEG would be any less accurate than a PTW, if anything it should be slightly more accurate due to better barrels and RHop being available. It takes more work to get an AEG to be very accurate, but once its done its a much better hop up application system than a PTW roller glued in place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxer2373 View Post
Also what are the more reliable out of the box and or upgradable AEG brands now???
VFC is the go to for most high end upgrade builds and will be far more reliable than a PTW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxer2373 View Post
Also best variable speed options would be great as many fields here have different feet per second rules.
Variable speed really isn't that important. Many indoor fields have a 380 limit while most outdoor limits are 400. Just keep your gun at 380, 20 FPS doesn't make that much of a difference. If you're really that concerned about FPS though you can try a quick spring change platform like the VFC HK416A5.
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Old February 14th, 2020, 13:47   #4
Foxer2373
 
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Thanks for the update guys!

Looked at Blitz’s stuff, geeze custom AEG’s went up, I remember 1k all on anything over a ptw was about the max.

Defiantly gonna look into it though as it now makes sense why PTW’s took such a beating in the used market.
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Old February 14th, 2020, 21:41   #5
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As someone who builds high end AEGs and upgrades PTWs:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxer2373 View Post
I know nowadays the gate mosfet will give similar if not better trigger response than older PTW’s.
BTC spectre is the definitive smart mosfet. You can potentially get GBBR/P* level trigger response but you need a really beefy battery to handle the amp spikes.
Otherwise, it's not that difficult to get PTW level trigger response, and you can shim the triggers to the same 2-3mm stroke. Only downside is the gun not stopping when the mag is empty, but there is an option for that sensor in the BTC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxer2373
What I don’t know is with Rhops being mainstream now and not Bolt action only ideas. Can an AEG reach the distance and repeatability of a PTW???
Unless a PTW had a modified hopup, their range and precision was honestly pretty shit.
With the hop mod, I find my Rhops shoot pretty well exactly the same. I HAVE actually Rhopped a PTW using the orga adjuster, but the hop design itself does not jive well with Rhops. Although it DID work, it produces the same results as the regular hop mod.
A well done flat hop can shoot just as well as Rhop and a PTW hop mod as well, and it's way easier to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxer2373
Also what are the more reliable out of the box and or upgradable AEG brands now???
Zim is the expert on this. If he says VFC, then it's VFC.
I've built off a few G&Gs and if you're doing a complete upgrade, there's no going wrong there, either. But if you want an M4 style, VFC for sure.
*sidenote: if you want something that doesn't take AR mags, make sure the mags can do what you want them to.
I have a VFC KAC PDW, and their mags will not feed for super fast trigger response. And ARP9 mags are single stacked, so you can't upgrade the springs. If you want an M4, the best mags are hexmags.


Advantages of the PTWs is still the ridiculous ease of which maintenance is done. I can be in and out of a cylinder, cleaned and regreased in 2 minutes. Still takes me around 15-20min to regrease an AEG since it has to be taken apart completely.
And also how little needs to be done to make it shoot amazing. Literally just mod the hop, and you're done.
Building a bomb ass AEG, although very easy in the hands of Zim or myself, still requires you find a good tech.
And the reliability of an upgraded gun is still pretty well entirely dependent on the person building it. But on the bright side, it doesn't tend to cost $200+ every time it breaks lol
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Old February 16th, 2020, 01:15   #6
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I still swear by my PTWs. The reliability, the ease of use and the overall consistency kill many AEG's out of the box. I'm lazy, I don't care to tweak and maintain a gun all the time. I know tomorrow, after not playing for awhile or opening it up, I can pull out my dub and kick ass. I don't have to worry about it at all, and can still be competitive. Have AEG's improved, yes, but for me, all I will use is my dubs and don't see that changing for a long long time. The real steel compatibility and feeling are bonus, plus the mag cut off rules.
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Old February 16th, 2020, 14:21   #7
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ptws have been obsolete since about 2012-2013 when techs started combining highly robust and programmable mosfets (extreme-fire/triggermaster, and the predecessor to btc that I've forgotten the name of) bevel shimming, rhops, sorbothane pads and RC-grade high discharge lipos.

rhops will edge out flat hops if done well, but that full 300ft+ shot requires a specific build package and a better-than-average install.

a complete build, at that time, priced out to the same or less than a stock USED ptw. not to mention it you wanted a rail system, needed your ptw motor rewound, or even better: two drops of glue in your hop unit (tackleberry mod).

the argument has gotten even worse over time with different quick-change spring options and empty mag detection. frequently, people have elected to even do two separate builds (indoor/outdoor) for the cost of one full ptw build. the real steel aspect is nice, but that can be done with regular aegs if desired, and not very many people in Canada have ARs to share parts to encheapen the endeavour. (also like my broke ass, most people can't afford real steel parts just to play dress up with 40 other fat guys on the weekend.)

I will concede ease of maintainance, but a fully built aeg shouldn't need to be serviced very frequently at all. the cylinder swapping is pretty slick, but I'm not a fan of it since I got shot with a 450+ spring that got mysteriously swapped into an indoor (350) cylinder, and if you're really familiar with a gearbox, a spring swap can be done in probably 20 minutes. packaging wise, that can be up to the builder. some of my builds have some heckin jank wiring (if it's just for my own use, I'm ok with it), but I've seen some incredibly tidy wiring as well.

really though, we've already argued it to death repeatedly over the past few years. at the end of the day, it's your money to waste as you see fit. *shrug*
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Old February 18th, 2020, 18:42   #8
Wrath144
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When I had a PTW (2012 and before), it was the best gun on the field. However in Mb, that wasn't saying much. I switched to AEG part way through 2012 and have not found any deficiency in a properly upgraded AEG. Even 2013/14 spec AEG tunes were as good or better than PTW. They're even better now. The only thing I missed, and still do, is the narrow grip.
The mag cutoff feature was not bad too, however it did instill a slight moment of terror of "why isn't my gun working" every time the mag went dry. And it being a PTW, the motor really could have gone at any time, so it was a real possibility that something was broken every time it stopped shooting.
Also PTW mags were an absolute nightmare for me, especially considering how much they cost.
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Old February 21st, 2020, 14:25   #9
Foxer2373
 
Join Date: May 2011
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That’s a ton guys,

Gonna be placing an order for a Presto Job sooner or later, seriously looking at the VFC Avalon CQB Mloc I’m tan, looks like a nice rig.

Haha big cash dump coming starting back up.... so mad I sold my Team Wendy Helmet!!! But the new knock off Flex’s look not to bad...
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Old February 21st, 2020, 20:50   #10
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You pay a premium on Avalon's because they have some minor upgrades. Get the bare minimum VR16 and save the cash for pestobabanananananan
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Old February 21st, 2020, 22:40   #11
Foxer2373
 
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Unless there are some other models or better pricing, the Avalon’s vs the VR’s are only 50$ difference. And hey 50$ is 50$

I’m still surprised someone hasn’t come out with an amazing Shell with an empty gear box... for guys just doing custom builds.... haha probably because they don’t want to admit how cheap the factory internals are.
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Old February 28th, 2020, 01:48   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxer2373 View Post
Unless there are some other models or better pricing, the Avalon’s vs the VR’s are only 50$ difference. And hey 50$ is 50$

I’m still surprised someone hasn’t come out with an amazing Shell with an empty gear box... for guys just doing custom builds.... haha probably because they don’t want to admit how cheap the factory internals are.
Because that would not be legal to import into Canada as it would be considered a "replica firearm"
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