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Old March 3rd, 2014, 17:25   #91
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Only place I've found so far.
http://www.rsov.com/product.php?curr...By=&sortOrder=

And you can keep the nut..
Thanks for both.
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 17:43   #92
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bullpup

I don't know why bullpups aren't more poular, especially in cqb.


-Aftermath aug, painted, home made silencer covering 650mm 6.03 tightbore (sold to airsoft group member)

-Ares Tavor Tar21, SHS piston(to replace stock 2 games old shattered one), 6.01 tightbore, P90 flashhider 'cause I thought it looked better than stock one. (likely sold to new group member)

-Echo1 p90, shimmed to perfection! 6.03 tightbore runs halfway into silencer (sold to group member)

-Magpul PTS PDR, stock
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File Type: jpg p90.jpg (473.5 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg SAM_9203.jpg (587.5 KB, 13 views)
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 19:00   #93
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Certain bullpups, like the p90 are perfect for cqb, but weapons like the Tavor are much less so due to their long stocks. Less so in airsoft because you don't have to shoulder it I suppose, but having to envelope yourself around that stocks exposes a lot of your body.

How's that MAGpul shooter treating you? Always thought that a neat looking concept
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 19:58   #94
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Originally Posted by targetGspot View Post
I don't know why bullpups aren't more poular, especially in cqb.
Bullpups might not be comfortable for some people or they might just feel awkward to shoulder.

I love the look of the Type 97B but when I had a chance to hold the longer Type 97 and shoulder the rifle, it just felt weird and out of place the moment I did. I'm sure I could get used to it after a bit more time with it, but my first impression of it wasn't as great as I hoped. That being said, if RS ever came out with a GBBR version Type 97B I'd still pick one up in a heartbeat.
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 23:29   #95
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I actually never liked my p90. I find them awkward to hold and the magazines suck balls,(too big, hicaps don't feed well, midcaps generally can't be fully loaded...). I've never found using the tavor exposes me at all, quite the opposite however I do find it awkward to aim. The PDR is amazing! Shoulders and aims just like an m4,(it should because it was designed to do so). rof weak on 7.4 but decent with 11.1 but it's shooting 415fps out of the box. I'm sure if I played indoors a lighter spring(quick change) would up that quite a bit. I was worried about the whole Ares gearbox thing but she's been solid. Don't let the small battery compartment turn you off, I play all day and although I switch up guns, I've played most of a day, (multiple shorter games over 6hrs) with it and not killed the battery. Besides it's an easy one to change out, you could do it mid game. The PDR is everything I wanted the tavor to be : /
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 23:35   #96
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Originally Posted by beta678 View Post
That being said, if RS ever came out with a GBBR version Type 97B I'd still pick one up in a heartbeat.
If RS came out with a GBBR Anything they'd make millions.

As for the Type 97, I agree that it's a more proprietary taste; I find it great to shoulder, extremely comfortable, very ergonomic, whereas some of my friends and other people that I know that handled the QBZ found it really weird and oddly shaped.

Also, I don't know if it's a coincidence, but all the Asians I know liked how the QBZ felt. Perhaps there's a connection going on?
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Old March 4th, 2014, 00:36   #97
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Originally Posted by JLiang View Post
If RS came out with a GBBR Anything they'd make millions.

As for the Type 97, I agree that it's a more proprietary taste; I find it great to shoulder, extremely comfortable, very ergonomic, whereas some of my friends and other people that I know that handled the QBZ found it really weird and oddly shaped.

Also, I don't know if it's a coincidence, but all the Asians I know liked how the QBZ felt. Perhaps there's a connection going on?
Lol! but I'm Asian! Still, it looks awesome to me. Tbh, the only thing that felt awkward about the Type 97 was how close your support hand grip is to the hand holding the pistol grip. It feels more natural for me to have my support hand out further than closely tucked in towards my body.
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Old March 4th, 2014, 00:48   #98
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Dang it, you had to go and ruin my theory.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 14:25   #99
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Originally Posted by Wilkie View Post
Certain bullpups, like the p90 are perfect for cqb, but weapons like the Tavor are much less so due to their long stocks. Less so in airsoft because you don't have to shoulder it I suppose, but having to envelope yourself around that stocks exposes a lot of your body.

How's that MAGpul shooter treating you? Always thought that a neat looking concept
Wilkie.
The TAVOR was built for urban operations. It looks to have really weird ergonomics but having seen the correct handling demonstrations on "points of contact" with the rifle, it actually makes sense how the ergonomics then come into play.

Most Bull-pups, in the real world at least, offer an increase in maneuverability in MOUT / FIBUA / CQB / CQC scenarios due to length and weight balance when in the shoulder.
They fail in two major areas IMO.
One changing the mag... your eyes are off target for longer when changing mags than comparable times for a conventional layout rifle.
Two: Reach with a Bayonet fixed... That said I would trade a full length barrel over reach any day.
Unless I was at Rourke's Drift, with 10000 angry Zulu's, deciding I would look better as a pin cushion.. then, and only then, I would take a full length rifle.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 15:12   #100
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The last known bayonet charge was British forces in Afganistan, with SA80/L85A2 rifles. which is a bullpup.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 15:32   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Patch View Post
Wilkie.
The TAVOR was built for urban operations. It looks to have really weird ergonomics but having seen the correct handling demonstrations on "points of contact" with the rifle, it actually makes sense how the ergonomics then come into play.

Most Bull-pups, in the real world at least, offer an increase in maneuverability in MOUT / FIBUA / CQB / CQC scenarios due to length and weight balance when in the shoulder.
They fail in two major areas IMO.
One changing the mag... your eyes are off target for longer when changing mags than comparable times for a conventional layout rifle.
Two: Reach with a Bayonet fixed... That said I would trade a full length barrel over reach any day.
Unless I was at Rourke's Drift, with 10000 angry Zulu's, deciding I would look better as a pin cushion.. then, and only then, I would take a full length rifle.

Once you get used to a bullpup, mag changes don't require any time off the target, just as with any other rifle once you are familiar with it you can do it with your eyes closed(that would take your eyes off the target).
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Old March 5th, 2014, 15:46   #102
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Originally Posted by targetGspot View Post
Once you get used to a bullpup, mag changes don't require any time off the target, just as with any other rifle once you are familiar with it you can do it with your eyes closed(that would take your eyes off the target).
I agree, I'm Running a L85 this season, so I have been practicing.. and I can do mag changes just as effectively now on that platform as I can on a M4. Im running realcaps , so i get to do a lot of mag changes
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Old March 5th, 2014, 16:30   #103
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There is of course situations where you have to reposition yourself to make the mag change,(with any gun) and I suspect it might be more often with most bullpups. However in airsoft if your reloading it's likely because you're in a fire fight and it's not like your giving your position away at that point or anything.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 17:14   #104
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here is some "tacspeak" for you..

The compact nature of the bullpup design affords a more positive context in your workspace and facilitates efficient tactical reloads in a multiplicity of combat postures. The proximity of the magwell to you resupply resources and it's context in the natural periphery of your visual combat space facilitates tactile and visually indexed reloads without diverting your principle visual inputs from the battle-space.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 18:40   #105
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Brian..
I used to use the L85A2 when I was in the BA.
Guess I did not practice reloading enough

My point is:
The Bullpup configuration is designed for one purpose... to have a full length barrel in a platform that is compact. The Brits adopted this rifle when the battle ethos changed during the early 80's that most infantry would now be deployed from vehicles. The SA80 was officially adopted in 85 as the L85A1 then reworked into one of the premier individual weapons systems in the world as the A2.

The compromise, as all weapons systems are, is that to get the full length barrel in a compact design you do not have the "Reach" of a conventionally laid out weapons platform.

Also the last major Bayonet Charge was conducted under fire... not against screaming hordes waving AK's and advancing with pig stickers on display when they had run out of bullets. My point of "Reach' against a conventionally laid out platform is still valid.

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