General Opinion on ThunderB grenades

[Trev140_0]

How about the fact the thunder b clearly states 'not for indoor use"

And the host says, NOPE, I think its ok for indoor use?

Really?

Good luck with that one.

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WARNING: This product produces loud noises with the use of pressurized gas. It can cause hearing damage or loss. Product should be used in an outdoor location. Use hearing protection during use. Not for indoor use. Do not hold once activated or bodily injury may result. Pull Pin and get away. Use may be restricted by local/state governments. Know the laws in your area before using Thunder B.


And the host says "no problem" all good!!

This is the same as the hosts who let guys get baked and play. Too bad the waiver written is no longer legally valid for that person and EVERYONE ELSE who signed it, as the contract was entered into by a party who was intoxicated.

Meat and potatoes here guys.
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Here is a better way of looking at it.

You have eyes and ears.

The field you play at goes through great lengths to ensure you keep your eye protection on. The protection you chose to ensure you have protected yourself from being shot. There are waivers you sign. FPS limits are given and enforced with various methods all to tie into this risk.


Enter in the thunder B

Is there a briefing or enforcement on this?
Is hearing protection on field listed as mandatory?
Are the players all specifically warned they could have this go off and they need to ensure they have protected there hearing?

No
No
and....
No

So allowing a devise that says on the label can cause hearing damage and not having the controls in place to even attempt to ensure the safety of the players is not acceptable.

Simply not acceptable.

[Cobrajr122]

Originally Posted by Trev140_0

Simply not acceptable.

Then lead the change, 'be the change you want to see in the world.'

Add earpro to the rules at your field or games you host.
Add noise level information to your pre game safety briefs.
Bring out a box of cheap earpro and have it available to those that wish to use it.

[Trev140_0]

Originally Posted by Cobrajr122

Then lead the change, 'be the change you want to see in the world.'

Add earpro to the rules at your field or games you host.
Add noise level information to your pre game safety briefs.
Bring out a box of cheap earpro and have it available to those that wish to use it.

Thanks

But much simpler to say.

"Please no Thunder B at this game.

Thanks,

(Host)"


Makes more sense than trying to figure out how to work through the proper use of a devise 90% of the people don't even have to please the 10% who do.


.

[~Ghost~]

Honestly its up to the field and the hosts not the opinions of one individual!!!

If players are playing at an event or field that allows their use or the use of DD's then the player(s) that don't want to hear the noise should bring their own appropriate hearing protection! Plain and simple and if they are totally against them then don't attend most milsim games. Another great option would be too find a field or place to skirmish where you can play or a paintball field and don't worry about your ears and the realism involved with airsoft.

This is after all a sport trying to replicate and depict modern conflicts and realism as much as possible!! Also the potential for injury sustained from airsoft is far greater coming from a bb then a a quick noise and some slightly cold co2/air being released lets be realistic here!!! Also for the record many and I do mean many indoor airsoft arenas across the world and also outdoor arenas that contain buildings allow the use of DD's. When not thrown directly at/ beside some one they are perfectly safe and do their job just enough!

But believe me they are no where close to the real thing! Not even half as close to a Tflash(training DD) So if you want to compare injury potentials a simple Google search will show you the the results of various airsoft related injury all the while playing with protective eye ware!!!! Yet are all players forced to wear full face masks a mouth guard and tacti-COOL earmuffs for ones ears in case of a bb? Wait shouldn't they wear a cup too????
NO!!!!!! They are not forced or made to wear extra gear when playing this game! That would be truly ridiculous!! Most adults know what they've signed up for when they sign the waiver and if they're not ok with that don't sign and find another venue or place to play!!!!!
Also yeah it does have a warning label as even a plastic child's toy must and random signs for that matter!!
References(for comical intent)
-http://underscoopfire.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/SAFE-TOY-label.jpg
-http://www.colinfahey.com/funny_images/warning_label_sign_has_sharp_edges.jpg

I'm sorry but its not even close to the Db level of a .22 cal! http://ballseyesboomers.blogspot.ca/...d-tactics.html

So to all of those who don't want the realism of DD's and Smoke omg that to in very very large amounts can be dangerous if inhaled while running through the smoke your using for cover... ohhhhhh nooooo... wait this is a milsim game right??? ... I DID sign up for and am trying to replicate and play?

The point is they are commonly used toys to replicate somewhat similar of a response to a real DD. Yet in no way come close to those Db levels and yield a similar reaction! Perfect for civilians and people trying to replicate something similar but not create the real thing!!!!!

Cheers,
Ghost

[Cobrajr122]

Originally Posted by Trev140_0

Thanks

But much simpler to say.

"Please no Thunder B at this game.

Thanks,

(Host)"


Makes more sense than trying to figure out how to work through the proper use of a devise 90% of the people don't even have to please the 10% who do.

I wouldn't say that they only please those that use them, I do not own any, but I LOVE hearing them go off. Every game I have been to with them in use, everybody around them when they go off gets a smirk on their face.

Outright banning something because you don't know how to deal with it is a pretty big issue with a lot of things, guns included...

P*s are being outright banned at a lot of fields in the US because people bitch about them and the field owners/hosts don't know how to deal with something new, so they just ban it.

With firearms being such a big issue in north america right now, should we just ban them because its easier then making fair laws for the few that own them vs the many that do not?

What about airsoft in Canada? Should they have just banned it because it was easier then making the unregulated firearms class for the ~0.003% of the population that use them?

[kullwarrior]

Originally Posted by ~Ghost~

Kullwarrior,

I'm definitely interested in that as I have spent numerous $$ on the shells, I'm just curious as to if the bang is worth the buck at roughly 180$ shipped? Are they consistently loud enough to surprise/distract the individual in the room or are the players able to still focus on the main breach point? Just hoping for some personal experience before I make such a large $$ commitment!

There's three main choices
1) 204 shotgun primer (I don't know how loud it is, but expect it to be roomsafe
2) 9mm/380 shell these are quieter than thunder B, used in UK as indoor round
3) Shotgun blank, much louder than thunder B, used in outdoor UK game

Originally Posted by Danke

They put out 130db or the same as a gunshot. You pretty well won't see anyone shooting these days without ear protection on.

So if the whole field is running proper ear protection then great. If not you'll need to relegate them to being set off a hundred feet or so from personal.

Ear damage is permanent; kind of like getting lazed. 20-30 years from now when you can't hear for shit there will be some more than hurt feelings.

And yes I have been in close proximity to someone cooking one off and I would definitely rate it as too loud. That is coming from someone who's already had their hearing wrecked by gunfire before ear protectors were in style and at-guns going off all day on the range.

The 9mm percussion blank and 9mm PAK blank are not as loud as 9mm luger round.
I find it ironic people accept thunder B but disallow 9mm percussion blanks. Thunder B is a lot louder than VTG.

Originally Posted by Grudge

Are the VTG's available in Canada?

They're available from SWAT Ltd in UK, they ship to Canada.

[~Ghost~]

Originally Posted by Trev140_0

Thanks

But much simpler to say.

"Please no Thunder B at this game.

Thanks,

(Host)"
.

That is a game I would never attend no offense but its essentially paintball with AEGs!! People want the realism the shock and awe and smoke and real effects of a real battle. With stereos hooked up playing realistic background noise during games and long game hours, eating mres, realistic mission briefings and missions as well as other aspects to try and recreate modern battle! The proof is the the amount of individuals that scour the these events from far and wide!!! Realism is after all what this sport is designed to replicate and players are after! otherwise most are satisfied with paintball.

And no 90% don't have them but I bet if you offered to them to try for free and not pay out of their pocket whey would likely oblige!!!! So don't penalize the 10% that do because they have a budget or the knowledge to use them!!!

Cheers,
Ghost

[Trev140_0]

Originally Posted by Cobrajr122

Outright banning something because you don't know how to deal with it is a pretty big issue with a lot of things, guns included...?

Bud,

The company who manufactured this, which I believe knows more than I do, stated not for indoor use.

You used the word ban.

I stated, at least at our field......they are not going to be used.

And If I host a game at Ultimate Airsoft again....same deal.


Do as you please.

[Cobrajr122]

Disallowing use at X field and banning use at X field are the same thing.

I did not say ANYTHING about using them indoors.

Airsoft guns say dont point at people, yet we do that every single game. words on a box to remove the company from liability does not mean we have to follow what it says...

DDs are in use at our local indoor field. It is an underground concrete bunker. myself and most of my team members all wear ear pro. The hosts recommend that players wear ear pro. If the players decide not to wear ear pro - that is their choice, just as it is their choice not to wear a mouth guard. We dont see such high controversy over mouth protection because its a users choice, so why should we be so in the air about ear pro.

[Doctorpepper]

i played with ANB and there was a fella there who served a tour in Afghanistan, he had PDSD due to almost dieing in a IED, a Thunder b grenade was thrown with out yelling grenade and he went into panic attack believing that he was being attacked again. They are great grenades but they should only be used in out door areas

[~Ghost~]

Originally Posted by Doctorpepper

i played with ANB and there was a fella there who served a tour in Afghanistan, he had PDSD due to almost dieing in a IED, a Thunder b grenade was thrown with out yelling grenade and he went into panic attack believing that he was being attacked again. They are great grenades but they should only be used in out door areas

As a currently serving soldier in the CF with 8 years of service I'm grateful for that individuals sacrifice and their commitment to there country as well as all others who have went to the sandbox!!!! Those that have went are truly amazing people!!!!!

That said if ANY individual is suffering mental ramifications of they're tour and or personal experiences its on that individual to realize he may not yet be fit(Safe) to play in a sport where everyday people act as your opfor. Its up to him to recognize it and go about it as best he can, they can use their friends and family to help that person cope and deal with properly and be supportive!!. A whole community(which also supports those funds regularly) should not have to suffer the use of not using a training toy or DD's in general as a result of one individual at all fields!!!! I say this with complete respect but that incident is not the fault of the DD, there were likely other underlying issues that should have been addressed before the game was attended!

Cheers,
Ghost

[MultipleParadox]

I haven't heard them go off yet, because they're banned from mostly all games around me from the look of it;

Personally I wouldn't mind its use. I think it's up to the player to get whatever protection he wishes for. Some player play bare chest when it's really hot and have been called "crazy", and were covered in welts after the game. But they were aware of the implication of this, and were not complaining. Same goes for mouth protection, it's a player's choice;

In that sense, I totally see ear pro being the player's responsibility as well.
What I could see is that if a host decide to allow DDs, require all player that calls in and plan on using DDs announce it on the game's thread. This way, players can prepare and "evaluate the risk" of being exposed to loud noise, and decide to bring ear pro accordingly.

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KullWarrior/Azaroth: About the VTG (I've been eyein' it for a while; didn't get it because I prob. couldn't use it at games here), none of you had issues with customs? Where do you get the blanks (what kind and do you need a pal or something to get any?)

[Cobrajr122]

Originally Posted by MultipleParadox

require all player that calls in and plan on using DDs announce it on the game's thread.

If a host decides they are allowed, and its in the rules that they are allowed, It should be assumed by all players that they will be in use. the onus should not be on other players to tell people to bring ear pro.

I should not have to tell people to bring mouth guards because im going to being BBs to the game...

[MultipleParadox]

Originally Posted by Cobrajr122

If a host decides they are allowed, and its in the rules that they are allowed, It should be assumed by all players that they will be in use. the onus should not be on other players to tell people to bring ear pro.

I should not have to tell people to bring mouth guards because im going to being BBs to the game...

Good point

What I was saying though is that considering all players will sling BBs, you know what to expect.

But if in a 100players game, only 2-3 guys are going to use TBs, I might consider it being a non-issue and ignore ear pro. But if I see half of the guys are going to potentially throw that at me, I might just bring earplugs.

Also, calling in and saying "in, NATO, ThunderB" is not very hard for anybody and is the least one can do I think

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by MultipleParadox

Good point

What I was saying though is that considering all players will sling BBs, you know what to expect.

But if in a 100players game, only 2-3 guys are going to use TBs, I might consider it being a non-issue and ignore ear pro. But if I see half of the guys are going to potentially throw that at me, I might just bring earplugs.

Also, calling in and saying "in, NATO, ThunderB" is not very hard for anybody and is the least one can do I think

This is absurd. Should I also be required to mention what weight of bb, rof of my gun, and fps I am shooting at during sign up? Or should it be assumed that everyone will be at the maximum for the event? Bring protection. Or don't. They are your ears.

Honestly, I've had them go off at point blank in a confined room, it SUCKS, but would I do it again without ear pro? Sure. It's not the worst I've had. Outdoors it is just a small shock at point blank. The real shock comes from not knowing it was thrown.

EDIT: To clarify, I have never owned, nor will I own a thunder B. But I do love having others use them on me and with me.