Toronto Tactical Airsoft Close Combat College (TTAC3)

Syphen · July 18th, 2005, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tankdude

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa

At a recent Dragon Ops game a stock tm ak fired over 400.

007 Airsoft special?

Quote:

Special Edition TM AK 47 (With PDI spring, reinforced super torque helical gears, and aluminum piston with uni-directional flow piston head installed. 425fps with 0.2g BB, or 400fps with 0.25g BB)

It was a supposedly "stock" gun that was purchased from either 007 or 6mm, I am not sure. It chronoed at 430 fps + on .2g, you really gotta watch out these days with shaddy dealings like that.

Shugart · July 18th, 2005, 21:00

Got any pictures of the facility...

I'm sure prying eyes are dying to see

TheYellowDart · July 18th, 2005, 21:00

Don't all the TM guns coming into BC and Alberta now have to be above 407 FPS out of the box?

Nuck · July 18th, 2005, 21:08

yes, but thats not the issue....or the topic..

Brian McIlmoyle · July 18th, 2005, 21:24

I doubt that I can avoid the "chrony issue"

I can set a fps limit, and I'm thinking 350FPS will be it.

I would rather leave it to each individual to hold to that, but the way I have written the rules and conventions the Range Safety Officer has the right to inspect any equipment in use. I will probably put in place a "suspension" procedure for rule breakers.

You can see pictures of the interior of the space at http://www.factoronto.com/locationMembership.htm

click on "training location" and scroll down to the bottom of the page

We are in the process of designing and building a reconfigurable wall system so that we can set up the space in many variations.

SINN · July 18th, 2005, 21:36

That sounds like a plan. I didn't mean anything negative about the 300 fps limit, I just know that you will always find someone who abuses the "gray" area. In this case that would be the term "stock". This program sounds pretty good and it is close to me!

Lisa · July 18th, 2005, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myoga

And if somebody breaks the limit they'll eventually get caught. Allow people to challenge the FPS of a gun, like they do the curve of a stick in hockey, and challenged guns get chronied, and people who are over the limit, but snuck in anyways can get banned for a year or something.

The idea with prechronying is that you avoid the injury/incident all together.

Contrary to popular belief chronying doesn't have to take a long time, it's a simple affair, specially if you have mags for every aeg. being that 1/2 of them are mp5's and armalites it's not such a huge ordeal. you realisticly need about 9 or 10 mags for the different familys of TM (and copy) AEG.

The proceedure is simple, you walk up to the chrony/registration, hand your gun (with out a mag) to the person doing the chronying, while they chrony your gun you give your info to the person handling the paperwork and sign the nessessary waivers and then if your gun chronies under you pony up the admin fee. it's not rocket science.

Brian good luck with this endevor.

MMMiles! · July 18th, 2005, 21:55

Sure, tell em you're banned for 6 months if you have a hot gun. Lord knows I'd chrony up even if I knew I was 50 under the limit just to make sure.
Temp hosts at rental locations often don't have the leverage or the balls to make calls like that, but I don't think you can lose doing it.

Brian McIlmoyle · July 18th, 2005, 22:00

Keep in mind

That we will be running 3 sessions a week, I don't want to spend too much time fiddling with chronying everyone every time.

I hope that with regulars we can just trust that they won't bring a hot gun.

this is a little different situation than the once a month "big game" where you have folks coming in that you don't know.

and also I can't see the need to bring a hot gun to an indoor game.

I am going to get a Chrono... but I hope I don't need it much, If we make the penalty harsh enough the fact that we can chrony any gun we want to ***may*** serve as all the deterent we need

MMMiles! · July 18th, 2005, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

Keep in mind

That we will be running 3 sessions a week, I don't want to spend too much time fiddling with chronying everyone every time.

I hope that with regulars we can just trust that they won't bring a hot gun.

this is a little different situation than the once a month "big game" where you have folks coming in that you don't know.

and also I can't see the need to bring a hot gun to an indoor game.

I am going to get a Chrono... but I hope I don't need it much, If we make the penalty harsh enough the fact that we can chrony any gun we want to ***may*** serve as all the deterent we need

Setup a station and make it available. Many games I used to run we'd do this - bear in mind many players almost never get chances to chrony their guns at all (which is why so many players have no idea what their gun actually shoots, just the ballpark the spring in it SHOULD shoot), so alot of people will appreciate the chance, and the peace of mind (for themselves on the field, and for not getting kicked out). It's a win-win... and it's cheap as far as setup goes...

made Man · July 18th, 2005, 22:06

350fps in CQB? Dont you think that's a bit too much?

You could also have some velocity reducers to rent to people who only have upgraded guns and want to bring them.

It got my 360fps aug down to low 200fps with the white ring.

willy · July 19th, 2005, 01:32

Yes definatly get some velocity reducers. that way all guns can be safe

. If you think your gun is hot take a look and if its over put a reducer on it. I dont think anyone would take it off just to intentionaly hurt someone, or would they?

ILLusion · July 19th, 2005, 04:32

In a situation like this, the worry isn't (for the most part) about people wanting to "cheat" and intentionally bring in a hot gun. The main worry should be people who do not know what their guns shoot. MOST airsofters actually do not know exactly what their guns shoot - only what is quoted to them for similar guns in similar configurations, but each gun is different.

Another potential exception to the "stock internals" rule: I understand that the reason for this is to keep velocities low to prevent injury. However, one of my AEGs is highly tuned for velocity consistency, increased trigger response time, and reduced power consumption. It shoots 314fps consistently with the hop up off and 304fps with the hop up properly adjusted for a straight trajectory with 0.28g BBs. It's a hair over the 300fps mark and has not hurt anybody in the 2 years I've used it, nor will it ever reach a point where it hurts somebody. However, it automatically breaks the rules due to the "stock internals only" rule.

Brian McIlmoyle · July 26th, 2005, 22:26

Been thinking about minimum protection standards.

I know that many people prefer to play with just goggles... but for close combat, indoor play without mercy rules, Im thinking that maybe full face protection may be in order.

Paint ball face masks.. or simunition helmets...

What are the opinions about requiring full face protection?

dman · July 26th, 2005, 22:37

I think it should be strongly advised, but even with a full paintball mask on, you can easily get face injuries. The slits in the paintball masks for ventilation are just smaller than the size of a BB, but with the force that the BB is travelling at (especially at close ranges) it's enough to go through, and then you get some injuries to the face.

However, even though BB's may still get through, they will be drastically slowed down by the face mask. For CQB, I'd say it's a really good idea, but not necessarily mandatory because face masks do get in the way with certain types of AEG's, and in the end it's all up the the player if they want that added level of protection. Provided they have proper goggles on, you've done your job.

This though, is just my humble opinion, take it for what it's worth.

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July 18th, 2005, 21:08	#19
Nuck Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Location:Location	yes, but thats not the issue....or the topic.. __________________ "Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant,'If I live, I will kill you. If I die, you are forgiven. Such is the rule of honor."

July 18th, 2005, 21:24	#20
Brian McIlmoyle 8=======D Trader rating Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Toronto	I doubt that I can avoid the "chrony issue" I can set a fps limit, and I'm thinking 350FPS will be it. I would rather leave it to each individual to hold to that, but the way I have written the rules and conventions the Range Safety Officer has the right to inspect any equipment in use. I will probably put in place a "suspension" procedure for rule breakers. You can see pictures of the interior of the space at http://www.factoronto.com/locationMembership.htm click on "training location" and scroll down to the bottom of the page We are in the process of designing and building a reconfigurable wall system so that we can set up the space in many variations. __________________ Brian McIlmoyle TTAC3 Director CAPS Range Officer Toronto Downtown Age Verifier OPERATION WOODSMAN If the tongue could cut as the sword does, the dead would be infinite

July 18th, 2005, 22:00	#24
Brian McIlmoyle 8=======D Trader rating Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Toronto	Keep in mind That we will be running 3 sessions a week, I don't want to spend too much time fiddling with chronying everyone every time. I hope that with regulars we can just trust that they won't bring a hot gun. this is a little different situation than the once a month "big game" where you have folks coming in that you don't know. and also I can't see the need to bring a hot gun to an indoor game. I am going to get a Chrono... but I hope I don't need it much, If we make the penalty harsh enough the fact that we can chrony any gun we want to *may* serve as all the deterent we need __________________ Brian McIlmoyle TTAC3 Director CAPS Range Officer Toronto Downtown Age Verifier OPERATION WOODSMAN If the tongue could cut as the sword does, the dead would be infinite

July 18th, 2005, 21:00	#18
TheYellowDart Myoga Trader rating Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC	Don't all the TM guns coming into BC and Alberta now have to be above 407 FPS out of the box?

July 18th, 2005, 21:36	#21
SINN Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Toronto	That sounds like a plan. I didn't mean anything negative about the 300 fps limit, I just know that you will always find someone who abuses the "gray" area. In this case that would be the term "stock". This program sounds pretty good and it is close to me!

July 18th, 2005, 21:55	#23
MMMiles! Part man, part machine Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Ontario	Sure, tell em you're banned for 6 months if you have a hot gun. Lord knows I'd chrony up even if I knew I was 50 under the limit just to make sure. Temp hosts at rental locations often don't have the leverage or the balls to make calls like that, but I don't think you can lose doing it.

July 18th, 2005, 22:06	#26
made Man Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Vansterdam	350fps in CQB? Dont you think that's a bit too much? You could also have some velocity reducers to rent to people who only have upgraded guns and want to bring them. It got my 360fps aug down to low 200fps with the white ring. __________________ You dont choose who you love, love chooses you; and that little fucking son of a bitch sticks itself to your face like the godless bloodsucking bastards in Alien and refuses to let go until it has drained your soul and left you an empty shell of a human being. I am worth $2,106,266.00 on HumanForSale.com <axel026> i need help please <^cell^> do you have an appointment? <axel026> im french <^cell^> i see... thats a terrible disorder

July 19th, 2005, 01:32	#27
willy Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Kitchener, Ontario	Yes definatly get some velocity reducers. that way all guns can be safe . If you think your gun is hot take a look and if its over put a reducer on it. I dont think anyone would take it off just to intentionaly hurt someone, or would they? __________________ Current Gear G36 k http://www.airsoftcanada.com/viewtopic.php?t=31874 buy/sell user rating _____________________________________________ Uh oh... perhaps you didn't notice this but you are fueling everyone's inner compulsive gambler. ASC has combined 2 expensive and addictive elements into the ultimate vice: gambling for airsoft. I'll get some chairs in a circle, put on some coffee, and register the support group; I'll need to get a head start on this epidemic.

July 19th, 2005, 04:32	#28
ILLusion GBB Whisperer Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto	In a situation like this, the worry isn't (for the most part) about people wanting to "cheat" and intentionally bring in a hot gun. The main worry should be people who do not know what their guns shoot. MOST airsofters actually do not know exactly what their guns shoot - only what is quoted to them for similar guns in similar configurations, but each gun is different. Another potential exception to the "stock internals" rule: I understand that the reason for this is to keep velocities low to prevent injury. However, one of my AEGs is highly tuned for velocity consistency, increased trigger response time, and reduced power consumption. It shoots 314fps consistently with the hop up off and 304fps with the hop up properly adjusted for a straight trajectory with 0.28g BBs. It's a hair over the 300fps mark and has not hurt anybody in the 2 years I've used it, nor will it ever reach a point where it hurts somebody. However, it automatically breaks the rules due to the "stock internals only" rule. __________________ *Advanced Airsoft Armaments and Enhancements* Quick to the gun, sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas Accuracy, Power, Speed

July 26th, 2005, 22:26	#29
Brian McIlmoyle 8=======D Trader rating Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Toronto	A little Input about protection? Been thinking about minimum protection standards. I know that many people prefer to play with just goggles... but for close combat, indoor play without mercy rules, Im thinking that maybe full face protection may be in order. Paint ball face masks.. or simunition helmets... What are the opinions about requiring full face protection? __________________ Brian McIlmoyle TTAC3 Director CAPS Range Officer Toronto Downtown Age Verifier OPERATION WOODSMAN If the tongue could cut as the sword does, the dead would be infinite

July 26th, 2005, 22:37	#30
dman Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001	I think it should be strongly advised, but even with a full paintball mask on, you can easily get face injuries. The slits in the paintball masks for ventilation are just smaller than the size of a BB, but with the force that the BB is travelling at (especially at close ranges) it's enough to go through, and then you get some injuries to the face. However, even though BB's may still get through, they will be drastically slowed down by the face mask. For CQB, I'd say it's a really good idea, but not necessarily mandatory because face masks do get in the way with certain types of AEG's, and in the end it's all up the the player if they want that added level of protection. Provided they have proper goggles on, you've done your job. This though, is just my humble opinion, take it for what it's worth. __________________ - "dman"

Toronto Tactical Airsoft Close Combat College (TTAC3)

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