Operational Security (OpSec)

[Oborous]

This sub-forum was requested to be created for TTP's; Tactics, Techniques, & Proceedures. Lisa was kind enough to create this forum, as I pointed out that we have a great deal on the gear, but very little on how to play better; this thread is to point out -your- liability here.

You -must- be careful of what you post here. You may actually be Canadian Forces, other military, PMC, Police, Law Enforcement etc... you -will- know things that should not be made publically available. This is critical if you have recieved training from a USA source, ITAR (International Traffic IN Arms Regulations) Title 22, Chapter 1, Subchapter M, part 120.9 - Defense Service includes training as a possible ITAR item.

Please ensure that you post the links, rather than just picture, so ASC can always ensure that they are not the source of a breach of security.

Also, there are TTP's that have been phased out in live-shoot (real-steel) that may still have merit for playing airsoft. If it's stupid and it works, it ain't stupid; this may be also work as "If it's old and it works, it ain't old".

I don't know of any top tier training centres that are training a high/low two man corner for clearing, that the low man can't withdraw due to the high man, and the high man is really leaning over due to the low man. But I have seen this used in airsoft (against me) and it was highly effective (I didn't have a 'nade at the time, and blind fire rules meant I had to expose myself)


This sub-forum is for playing the game better, not causing a security breech that gets some of our men & women in uniform killed or wounded.

[Frozen Tex]

So this forum should be like the ex-SEAL who writes military action-thriller novels, but purposely changes details of specwar procedures so as no to "give away the goodies" to the bad guys? (Like, it sounds cool, but if you tried it in real life you'd get yourself killed.)

[Danke]

I think there are some very basic small unit tactics, tips and even overlooked gear folks should be carrying before worrying about more exotic gear and secret techniques.

It blows me away how many people won't show up to a game with a watch, if you have an objective to hold or reach at X minutes how will you know?

Paper and pencil instead of trusting your memory.

A whistle that won't rattle or freeze up for when you're out of shouting range and the radios are down.

[Oborous]

Originally Posted by Danke

I think there are some very basic small unit tactics, tips and even overlooked gear folks should be carrying before worrying about more exotic gear and secret techniques.

It blows me away how many people won't show up to a game with a watch, if you have an objective to hold or reach at X minutes how will you know?

Paper and pencil instead of trusting your memory.

A whistle that won't rattle or freeze up for when you're out of shouting range and the radios are down.

Defintely!!

Get your SH!T squared away first! How many 'secret squirell' technqiues require you and your -team- to have been working together for quite some time. I know LE comms, even incident command comm proceedures, but when it's coming to airsoft, I can't figure out why I keep failing on simple comms proceedures with other people.

Yes, doing a Costa style speed reload will get you some cool guy points, but wouldn't it be better to actually have some hard cover between you and the enemy and a couple of buddies pointing irons down range to make sure you're not rushed and can properly do your reload?

However, having a goal of some of the secret squirell moves might motivate some of the other players to actually learn the basics.

[Oborous]

Originally Posted by Frozen Tex

So this forum should be like the ex-SEAL who writes military action-thriller novels, but purposely changes details of specwar procedures so as no to "give away the goodies" to the bad guys? (Like, it sounds cool, but if you tried it in real life you'd get yourself killed.)

TTP's also change rapidly, especially with the amount of shooting currently going on.

You'll see that many ballistic shield courses now purposefully don't teach any pistol technqiues with shield, people were getting focused on returning fire, rather than the positioning of the shield and alot of simmunition was put into feet; dropping the shield operator, leaving the stack open to direct fire.

However... we also need to realize that some of the proceedures of yesteryears will be highly effective due to the safety concerns of airsoft. 'Nades are pretty rare and no blind fire, no crack-fire means you have very little indirect options of resoultion.

[lt_poncho]

What about proxims of war and fighting in general that translate well to Airsoft, such as a common one that always seems to ring true;

"Ratio of Attack to Defend - 2:1"

Certainly not a defacto 'Law of War' but certainly a list of things that help game organizers put together scenarios that work when keeping these factors in mind.

[Oborous]

Anything goes here, posting the little quotes should be in it's own thread.

I envisioned a collection ground for -anything- that makes you a better airsoft player. Proxims, if it helps, are good to go; maybe someone doesn't realize that they're basically a chairsofter in the field, or that all they do is run around like a hooligan.

I hope that we get decent amounts of video and photo posts to give visual representation of what we're discussing.

However, I am concerned about the ability for this to go a'flaming or a'trolling. I'm concerned that some member here will post something that they shouldn't because they've risen to the bait of a troll. We don't have a bonafide system here, so anyone can post saying that they're JTF2 or Delta, etc. I'm worried that a regular CF guy will say what they do instead.

That's all this thread is trying to point out. Don't be 'That Guy' that let the cat out of the bag. If you're going to discuss a technique and you are 'in the know', find a video on You-Tube or a link to a diagram; find someone else who's put it public domain, if you can't find something about it, then don't talk about it. Even when replying to something that mostly correct, be careful, it could be that there is a crappy video out there an an arm-chair 'SpecOps' guy is talking out of his butt, you could be giving away the key piece here.

Originally Posted by lt_poncho

What about proxims of war and fighting in general that translate well to Airsoft, such as a common one that always seems to ring true;

"Ratio of Attack to Defend - 2:1"

Certainly not a defacto 'Law of War' but certainly a list of things that help game organizers put together scenarios that work when keeping these factors in mind.

[Oborous]

Just for clarification.

If someone posts something that they think is a good idea, that they came up with themselves, then that's not a breach.

However, someone then confirming "Dude, that's how I do it in the Reg Forces" -is- a breach of OpSec. Please don't be That Guy that breaches OpSec. If someone posts something that you do in real life and are in the know, then don't reply or keep it generic i.e. "my airsoft team uses that". You do not get cool guy points for saying that this is how it's done in real life.

TTP's are reliant on people so most TTP's are more common sense thinking about how to achieve an efficient and safe (for you) action in a combat situation. Thus, you will have random 're-creation' of actual TTP's, plus the whole "If it's stupid and it works, it ain't stupid".


If you -think- you are breaching OpSec, then you are breaching it.

[DuffMan]

This is ridiculous.

[Oborous]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

This is ridiculous.

Care to elaborate as to your comment? Or take this to PM's?

[DuffMan]

I do not believe that any TTPs or operational details that would compromise OpSec would present itself on Airsoft Canada, that's all. It's a lot of self-important masturbation to imply otherwise.

Just sayin'.

[Oborous]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

I do not believe that any TTPs or operational details that would compromise OpSec would present itself on Airsoft Canada, that's all. It's a lot of self-important masturbation to imply otherwise.

Just sayin'.

Ah, I can understand your where you're coming from. However, I have been the guy commanded to search Facebook because some guys in my agency posted training photos/videos that violated OpSec. This was just facebook where the guys were showing the cool shit they just learned, not a place where there is a game played that could benefit from what they just learned. I ended up asking a UC guy what was so dangerous of what I saw, it was a eye opening experience as to what could be gleaned. This isn't just some guy over in afganastan that could get information from these videos, it could be organized crime. (I can't confirm this next sentence) I've been told that in Italy it's all outdoor fields because the government is worried that airsoft could be used for training organized crime.

[lt_poncho]

I didn't make up the 2:1 - I have just used and applied it several times to my advantage.
"Tactics, Techniques and Procedures" right?

Who cares who knows about it - it's all in the application. Common sense isn't OPSEC but you would think it is sometimes...

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Oborous

Ah, I can understand your where you're coming from. However, I have been the guy commanded to search Facebook because some guys in my agency posted training photos/videos that violated OpSec. This was just facebook where the guys were showing the cool shit they just learned, not a place where there is a game played that could benefit from what they just learned. I ended up asking a UC guy what was so dangerous of what I saw, it was a eye opening experience as to what could be gleaned. This isn't just some guy over in afganastan that could get information from these videos, it could be organized crime. (I can't confirm this next sentence) I've been told that in Italy it's all outdoor fields because the government is worried that airsoft could be used for training organized crime.

So this response is a few months late, but I haven't checked this thread and I didn't want you to think that I was trying to bash you personally. I have seen a lot of information and misinformation posted on this forum to earn cool guy points. I have been totally guilty of this at times and to a degree.
I recognize your intention that it is better to be safe than sorry. I supposed my statements had a pejorative edge to them in that it seemed to validate some of that misinformation.

Originally Posted by DuffMan

So this response is a few months late, but I haven't checked this thread and I didn't want you to think that I was trying to bash you personally. I have seen a lot of information and misinformation posted on this forum to earn cool guy points. I have been totally guilty of this at times and to a degree.
I recognize your intention that it is better to be safe than sorry. I supposed my statements had a pejorative edge to them in that it seemed to validate some of that misinformation.

Naw, it's still goofy.

Those that know don't talk. Those that talk don't know.