New to these WE gas rifles, got the KAC PDW. Now what?

[kdogg]

Now what other then shooting the piss out of it?

Hey guys. I need some suggestions.

I'm a PTW and AEG tech, I rarely mess with gas rifles or sub-guns. I just picked up some WE KAC PDW's and I know nothing about what can be done with them or what should be done with them.

I know RA Tech makes a bunch of goodies (I have a KWA MP7 with some RA Tech goodness) but what should I be looking for upgrades on these WE KAC PDW's?

I need to bring the FPS down to 350 on .20g BBs for sure (it's almost 400 now) and I'd like to make sure its good and reliable.

I did a quick check on eHobbyAsia for parts and I see the CNC lowers with full Knights PDW trademarks, gotta have one of those for sure just for the coolness/leet factor but as far as internals, whats worth the investment? They pretty much have everything.

CNC trigger sets, bolts, guide rods, tightbores, hop-up rings (fix thingy?) adjustable gas systems blah blah blah. So many parts, not even sure what needs attention on these.

Any info would be great. Also can some of KAC PDW owners, gas or electric, post up some pictures for me. I want some idea external upgrades!

Thanks guys.

[coach]

There's a thread on the PDW in the media forum.

Only thing I've gotten for it was the RA-Tech NPAS kit which included the stinger hopup plus a couple other metal upgrade parts, and a spare bolt from airsoftbuddy.

Lube frequently. Currently happy with Ultra Slick multipurpose synthetic grease. Also loctite everything including then folding stock hinge screws. The bottom one likes to back out from the recoil and can fall out.

Don't force the selector from semi to safe or auto unless you rack the charging handle first!

[kdogg]

All those RA-Tech NPAS kit items are confusing the hell out of me. I'm going to post a few I found, tell me what the heck the difference is.

I know on my MP7, at the time there was just like one thing you bought but I see so many parts for the WE that kinda sorta have the same name.

First up:

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/ra-tech-n...bb-series.html

And

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/ra-tech-n...m-pdw-m14.html

Are they both needed and what does each do?



Then this last one is just a flow valve for the magazine right? Kinda looks like one. Could be wrong.

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/ra-tech-n...m-pdw-m14.html

Oh and what the heck is this?

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/ra-tech-s...e-pdw-gbb.html

I feel like such a noob! I'll go check out that thread too! Thanks!

[coach]

From the RA-Tech website:
Up grade package (for WE PDW) RAG-WE--015
$101.00

[ThunderCactus]

http://redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/ai...for_WE_PDW.htm

Should be all you need until something breaks

[kdogg]

Yeah I was looking at coachster link to that.

So um, what should I expect to "break"?

[Assault Pioneer]

lol! you actually live in Kalamazoo?!

for breakage, nothing really, but for shit shaking off from firing, you may want to go over the entire gun and tighten everything up right away. especially the pins that hold the stock in place to the body those get the most vibrations from the firing. it's okay to loktite them it's probably the only part where its okay to apply locktite. also the adjustment knob on the rear sight will get shaken to shit and be prone to fall off, and the screw thing on the selector switch will eventually beging to loosen but because it's a high use item where your constantly touching you should notice it's going loose straight away and tighten it back up.


keep a multitool on you for the first month of it's life, once everything's set and tight (tightening some things just once may not be good enough) after a month of tightening it'll be rock solid and you won't have to watch anything

open bolt version full trades, oh ya, it can use normal WE m4 mags but to put them in the PDW is disrespectful to such a creation, stick to the actual PDW mags for authenticity and keeping the look you can get them cheap at WGCshop

[mcguyver]

Loc-Tite what shouldn't move and lube what should.

Or so I've been told.

[kdogg]

Damn you guys and your trades. I should have ordered one from Canada!

Seriously though, I ordered one of those CNC bodies with the full trades and the proper style KAC sights. I want it to look exactly like this:




Think I'm going to just order that one RA Tech kit above simply because I got this for CQB and the limits 350 FPS. Just that and call it a day til something breaks or falls off!




and YES, I live in Kalamazoo!

[coach]

The npas nozzle may need a bit of Sanding to make it fit better. Nothing major but the new steel nozzle is a hair wider than stock. There are a few threads regarding the npas and WE's.

I've yet to fix mine as I swapped back to the stock nozzle/bolt for a game with higher fps limits.

They come in both flavours up here. I chose no trades as it was available and cheaper.





Madbull xm203 long launcher
TM gen2 Tracer unit / Madbull firepig flash hider
Paracord wrapped folding stock
Aimpoint / Eotech 552 clones
(both sights co-witness the BUIS perfectly)

All the pics I have on my iPhone.

[m102404]

Kdogg,

GBBRs make everyone feel like noobs...LOL

The diff between the first and second links you posted is that one is for the closed bolt system and the second is for the open bolt system. Closed bolt is for the model with the brass tube. Buy accordingly...I think everything is labled "open bolt" or else it's assumed closed bolt (original system).

Reference the WE M4...part #66 is the part that wears/breaks. Sometimes right away....sometimes after 3000rnds....sometimes much longer. One of the prongs will snap off. Any of the CNC/Wire cut/etc steel replacement units will sort that out permanently. Once you figure out how to get the trigger box out of the receiver it'll take 30sec to swap it...don't loose the little spring on the outside of it.

Steel knockers aren't all that necessary....I'd only replace if you damage the stock one somehow (mines 5K+ shots with no wear....so....).

Part #66, tweaking the hopup and installing a tightbore (not sure if that was necessary...but hey ) is all I've replaced on my stock M4.

With a careful look at the hopup system I'm sure you'll be able to interpret how to tweak/setup the hopup (you're the same Kdogg as on the PTW forum right?). I have found that their system tends to put on too much hopup....so if it's installed and you can't get the hopup completely off to start, you may find yourself tearing into it again.

Rubber safe grease, 80wt RC shock oil....lube all contact, sliding, bearing, rolling surfaces. I've been ok with greasing (I use Superlube/Viperlube....PTFE in clear gel suspension) o-rings. It tends to stick around and not dry up/away.

Oiling every mag is a good idea...running an overly oily mag through it once in a while is a good idea. It'll blow lighter oil through the whole system.

Keep mags filled with oiled gas...it'll keep the seals in good shape.

Don't hammer on a BB jam...it's like hammering on a BB jam with a PTW....the rifle's going to keep going and the nozzle takes the brunt of the smashing. For the same reason as with a PTW...I wouldn't use silica BBs in these...the SS nozzle will chop right through a plastic bb just fine...I'd expect damage with a silica.

Loctite EVERYTHING you don't want to shake loose. Check over like a real rifle pre/post use. I've shaken mounts, sights, sling studs, etc...out of mine.

Don't know what the temp is where you are....but obviously these things like a min of 15deg C temps...

Have fun...buy lots of propane now!

Tys

[kdogg]

Yes, I'm the same Kdogg as the one from the PTW forum. Which is sorta why I was almost embarrassed to post about these GBBR's LOL!

All my custom PTW stuff, my custom CNC lowers, hopups, all the custom guns I've built and I pick up this WE KAC and I'm like duhhhhhh. Instant noob stupid!

No joke, it took me an hour to figure out how to get the damn bolt out. See, I wanted a black CQB model as this gun will be for a local CQB facility only. The WE wholesaler was out of black CQB models so I bought some black long barrels and a tan CQB models so I could swap some barrels around. I felt so stupid trying to figure it out. That dang spring ended up being what didn't see. I actually had to grab the manual and look over the diagram to figure it out. Something I haven't had to do on a PTW or AEG in 15+ years!

Which brings me to something else. Hands down, without a doubt I think that Airsoft Canada is the BEST forum, anywhere in the world for getting tech help and I don't even live in Canada. I think its better then AirsoftForum, Arnie's, or any of the others. Those other forums just have too many stupid people. I always find the awnsers I need here with no BS. I really want to thank you guys for all your help. You know its funny, when someone comes into our shop and asks me for a good forum for tech info, reviews etc, I always say well I know its Canada but try the Airsoft Canada forum, tons of good info there.

Anyway, thanks again guys!

[m102404]

LOL...yeah, same here. AEG's of all sorts...PTW's...odd ball stuff....no prob. Then figuring out these rifles is something entirely new.

I think I've got a read of what you're comfortable with...and the Cole's notes of it is this:
- they are essentially oversized gas pistols
- WE work on the Negative Pressure system (NPAS) and the WA style work on the Positive Pressure system (but can be switched over)....6 of one, half dozen yadayada
- WE vs. WA system...the WA system are more attractive as a "builders" gun...the WE's are just simple "drop in" systems
- it's all in the lubing and mags
- compared to AEG's...you'll be in heaven once you've given the rifles a good once over eyeball...they'll ruin you 'cause you'll never want to work on an AEG again. As much as the PTW is essentially easier to work on than a fiddly AEG...the WE gas rifles are the same amount again and then some easier to work on than a PTW (NO MOTORS to deal with ).

Spare parts & misc notes you'll want to have on hand:
- replace part #66 (buy an extra to give to a buddy when they buy one too )
- nozzles...with jams it'll just keep ramming BBs in and enventually the bolt carrier will smash/crush the nozzle into them. SS CNC or not it'll die if you keep doing that. If you have an open bolt you'll want to look at having an extra nozzle for peace of mind. (RED loctite the nozzle parts once you have the NPAS valve in)
- Closed bolt system...take a look at the little plastic spacer on the rod...that sets the "headspace" of the nozzle in the chamber. There's no give to that....I swapped it out for some rubber that's slightly longer but has give. Theorize that it acts as a buffer in case of jam (works so far).
- On the SCAR/PDW piston body...it's held onto the bolt carrier with a big E-clip. The stock piston body is mild steel (I think...it's soft). With use the piston body can get wobbly and loosen up. Preventatively you can tap the flange back tighter...or go to a SS RAtech one (but then the forces are transmitted to the bolt carrier and I'd rather bust a piston body than the bolt carrier...although you can get either readily)
- I personally do not care for the open bolt plastic nozzle....I've seen too many blown nozzles on GBBs, and with the amounts of gas being pushed though these I wonder about their MTBF. If I went for an open bolt system....I'd be looking for 2-3 spare nozzles to have on hand.
- don't know if you can do it for the PDW...but for the M4 I just bought a complete trigger/hammer drop in assembly as a spare to have on hand. Now there are individual replacement parts available...but the whole stock replacement unit only set me back $50 and I still haven't had to use it.

I've got a WE WETTI/AWSS Tech thread going somewhere here....I'd much appreciate your educated eye and any tech feedback if you want to post it there.

Best of luck...have fun...remember, now your neighbours can hear you shooting in your basement

Tys

[teriases]

Hi guys.

I'm actually planning to get a WE PDW soon. And this thread is a great help I'm knowing what to look forward to. But I have a quick question.

Are there any difference in terms of how difficult it is in servicing the rifle, between the open bolt and close bolt versions?

Also I heard the open bolt version runs at a lower fps and lower performance...?

[m102404]

Take a GBB pistol...look at the slide...that's basically the "open bolt" system.

Take a look at the parts/pics of the "closed bolt"/brass tube system...not really any more parts between one and the other...but set up differently.

Both work. There's probably a bit more places/points to look at for fit and wear and tear (orings) on the closed bolt design. But on the upside it's more of a contained system so if it's lined up and working right, it'll work for a long time.