Is it Illegal for a Minor to POSSESS an Airsoft Gun in Canada?

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by The Saint

Do you mean not obvious replicas?

Nope. He mentioned the AR and AK variants of the BT4 line. I guess they're using "soccer mom" quality control.
What really sucks is he's an airsofter, and he has to send all this stuff back.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by The Saint

Replica firearm is explicity excluded from the category of prohibited device for all Criminal Code paragraphs involving non-trafficking possession offence, has been for 10 years now.

Read it again, from the CFC Fact Sheet for replicas:

Possessing or Acquiring Replica Firearms
As an individual, you may keep any replicas that you owned on December 1, 1998. You do not need a licence to possess a replica firearm and it does not have to be registered. However, you cannot acquire, make or import a replica firearm. If you take a replica firearm out of Canada, you cannot bring it back in.

If you are a business, you may possess, acquire or import replica firearms only if you have a valid Firearms Business Licence that allows you to possess prohibited device for an approved purpose.



This is pretty clear cut. Not really open to interpretation, unless you are arguing whether a gun is a replica or not. Good luck with that.

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by CFC Fact Sheets

This fact sheet is intended to provide general information only. For legal references, please refer to the Firearms Act and its regulations and to Part III of the Criminal Code.

The CFC only has power to administer the Firearms Act, specifically the paperwork end. The Fact Sheets are based on their interpretation, which they're free to make, but their legal basis is dubious at best.

Originally Posted by Criminal Code 91(2)

Unauthorized possession of prohibited weapon or restricted weapon
(2) Subject to subsection (4) and section 98, every person commits an offence who possesses a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, other than a replica firearm, or any prohibited ammunition, unless the person is the holder of a licence under which the person may possess it.

Originally Posted by Criminal Code 92(2)

Possession of prohibited weapon, device or ammunition knowing its possession is unauthorized
(2) Subject to subsection (4) and section 98, every person commits an offence who possesses a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, other than a replica firearm, or any prohibited ammunition knowing that the person is not the holder of a licence under which the person may possess it.

[Greylocks]

I've just seen several posts covering the confusion. That's the problem; confusion.

I can interpret what I read one way, or even several ways. What I heard interpreted the most was that airsoft were replicas, and then that replicas were considered prohibited by certain branches of the government.

So, since the day one of us winds up in a court may happen, and the entire thing wont be fun, I interpret using the worst case scenario. So I base my comments on what relates to prohibited devices. Those I'm sure you cant buy or possess unless you are over 18.
That too can be interpreted.

Some of you see it differently. Nobody can really tell who is right, and that is a problem I wish was finally resolved by the government In Writing.

A court ruling works for me, it's the only legal comment I ever heard that was written down. Now I wish I could find the damned thing or remember the thread.

[Oberst39]

Originally Posted by Greylocks

I've just seen several posts covering the confusion. That's the problem; confusion.

I can interpret what I read one way, or even several ways. What I heard interpreted the most was that airsoft were replicas, and then that replicas were considered prohibited by certain branches of the government.

So, since the day one of us winds up in a court may happen, and the entire thing wont be fun, I interpret using the worst case scenario. So I base my comments on what relates to prohibited devices. Those I'm sure you cant buy or possess unless you are over 18.
That too can be interpreted.

Some of you see it differently. Nobody can really tell who is right, and that is a problem I wish was finally resolved by the government In Writing.

A court ruling works for me, it's the only legal comment I ever heard that was written down. Now I wish I could find the damned thing or remember the thread.

Agreed.

Now, as for the general guidelines of this community, I suggest that it is perhaps time that the admins setup some guidelines to clear the confusion strictly pertaining to the ASC website. For example, 18+ only to be able to post on this site. This would follow in line with 18+ being able to play at sanctioned games. New users to this site should perhaps be restricted to the FAQs for the first "while" and the reading of the FAQs should be a prerequisite to full privledges on this site.

Obviously even those that have been members of this community for a long period of time cannot give an accurate answer as to the questions at hand. So, lets not give out inaccurate information but perhaps curtail that information to those that are of age to use this site.

My thoughts only.....

[Shirley]

Originally Posted by Oberst39

Agreed.

Now, as for the general guidelines of this community, I suggest that it is perhaps time that the admins setup some guidelines to clear the confusion strictly pertaining to the ASC website. For example, 18+ only to be able to post on this site. This would follow in line with 18+ being able to play at sanctioned games. New users to this site should perhaps be restricted to the FAQs for the first "while" and the reading of the FAQs should be a prerequisite to full privledges on this site.

Obviously even those that have been members of this community for a long period of time cannot give an accurate answer as to the questions at hand. So, lets not give out inaccurate information but perhaps curtail that information to those that are of age to use this site.

My thoughts only.....

If we had to be 18 to post, when signing an account, you need to put a birthdate. Someone can just list and put a legal age of year. If that doesn't work, you guys would say oh, meet up with one of our members that are age verfiers. I've seen some guys that have airsoft, legal of age, trying to get verified but most of the time, they are not in the location age verifiers are in.

[Tex]

But if you go with that line of thinking would it not mean any airsoft gun bought after dec.98 is illegal. if you are ready to call them all replicas right now then it would. Is one court case enough to set a precedent? I don't know and if it is then it would look like the goverment is seeing them all as replicas. -18 would not matter because if it was bought after dec.98 it's illegal for anyone. If you say they are replicas but continue to buy you are admitting to and encouraging illegal activity? I am just thinking aloud right now I support the +18 for playing and owning not because I think it is a law but because it simplifies any legal issues if they should come up no dealing with mommy.

[GOD]

It seems to me that there are a numer of questions that must be systematically adressed to really understand this issue.

-Are airsoft guns classified as replicas? If so federally or provincially?
-Does case law exist that has set precident in an airsoft case? Did the precident deal with aisoft specifically or the use of airsoft to perpetrate a crime, or with large scale distribution and importation? Do the police know and understnad the law?
-What bearing does age have on these laws?
-Can airsoft be grandfathered?

These are a few of the questions I could think of, and as you can see it's hard to answer the third question without adressing the first two. While I agree that a professosional lawer could shed light on the subject it would simply be thier personal interpreation of a set of rough regulations that hopscotch thier way around the true issue.

As I understand airsoft was designed in Japan to fit through a loophole in thier firearms control act, aparently it does the same thing except our hole is square and airsoft is round.

[quick90]

Originally Posted by Oberst39

Agreed.

Now, as for the general guidelines of this community, I suggest that it is perhaps time that the admins setup some guidelines to clear the confusion strictly pertaining to the ASC website. For example, 18+ only to be able to post on this site. This would follow in line with 18+ being able to play at sanctioned games. New users to this site should perhaps be restricted to the FAQs for the first "while" and the reading of the FAQs should be a prerequisite to full privledges on this site.

Obviously even those that have been members of this community for a long period of time cannot give an accurate answer as to the questions at hand. So, lets not give out inaccurate information but perhaps curtail that information to those that are of age to use this site.

My thoughts only.....

Pretty ironic considering you aren't age verified and you are posting on this site.

Many airsoft players in Canada are under age 18, and some fields/arenas allow players 16+ to play. Shouldn't the 16 year old player who plays with a club be able to post on internet airsoft forums. Sure I agree 18+ classifieds are a good idea, but after working for an indoor airsoft arena there are many players aged 16-18 who are old enough to play, and should be allowed to post on these forums.

[Oberst39]

Originally Posted by quick90

Pretty ironic considering you aren't age verified and you are posting on this site.

True, I am not age verified. However, having said that, if age verification is a prerequisite to using this site, then I will hop in my vehicle, take a drive to New Westminster here in the lower mainland, see Colin and have him verify me. To date I have not done that because I do not have a need to.

Originally Posted by quick90

Many airsoft players in Canada are under age 18, and some fields/arenas allow players 16+ to play. Shouldn't the 16 year old player who plays with a club be able to post on internet airsoft forums. Sure I agree 18+ classifieds are a good idea, but after working for an indoor airsoft arena there are many players aged 16-18 who are old enough to play, and should be allowed to post on these forums.

As for the above statement, what I am saying is that perhaps ASC should be self governing until such time as any irregularities/inconsistancies in the legal system with regards to airsoft are cleared up.

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by GOD

-Are airsoft guns classified as replicas?

The definition of replica firearm fits airsoft to a T. It'd be extraordinarily difficult to argue airsoft as anything else.

If so federally or provincially?

It is considered a firearms matter, so federally. Incidentally, replica firearms are not and cannot be firearms by definition.

-Does case law exist that has set precident in an airsoft case? Did the precident deal with aisoft specifically or the use of airsoft to perpetrate a crime, or with large scale distribution and importation? Do the police know and understnad the law?

Airsoft does not exist as a legal definition within the criminal system, because any abuse of it would be classified as abuse of replica firearm/prohibited device.

-What bearing does age have on these laws?

Technically? None. Authorization to acquire and transfer prohibited device is basically impossible for individuals to get, what authorization floating around are limited to businesses in the film industry for the most part. Since no one regardless of age can get said non-existent authorization for transfer, age is a non-issue.

In addition, under the Criminal Code, possession of replica firearm is not illegal, period, with no age conditions attached.

-Can airsoft be grandfathered?

No, for something to be grandfathered, a specific clause for it must exist in the Criminal Code. To the best of my knowledge, there is no such clause for prohibited devices or replica firearm. The Fact Sheet from CFC might sound like a grandfather clause, but it's not actually based on one.

[quick90]

Now, as for the general guidelines of this community, I suggest that it is perhaps time that the admins setup some guidelines to clear the confusion strictly pertaining to the ASC website.

What confusion is this? I don't think what we are talking about pertains directly to confusion with this site.

As for the above statement, what I am saying is that perhaps ASC should be self governing until such time as any irregularities/inconsistancies in the legal system with regards to airsoft are cleared up.

Makes sense.

[Ronan]

So this is a bit like the states in the way that Ontario laws are different than Quebec laws, as New York laws are different than Texas laws, correct?

So if i understand everything correctly, the LAW states that if you sale a replica/airsoft gun to someone IN Ontario, he/she MUST be +18.

What about Quebec? Where can i find this information?

Personally i only sell airsoft related stuff to people who are verified or that shows me they are +18.

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by Ronan

What about Quebec? Where can i find this information?

Search provincial and territorial legislature sites' law section, or databases for all of Canada. Only Ontario has that bylaw, last time I checked.

[Shirley]

What Illusion is trying to say is what you guys need to back up what you are saying and to have the proof. As mcguyver got from the Firearms Act, it does not state it. But why does Greylocks story say they are replica firearms which the court has said?
Who knows who's right. All of this is causing confusion. If it's not in the Act, it's legal.