Proposal to the community - CASRDC

[GraveTech]

This is a quick proposal I slapped together at the end of my work day. This may not seem necessary right now, but it could only help the community.

Canadian AirSoft Dispute Resolution Council - CASDRC

Purpose: To provide a last-line of bias-free dispute resolution (arbitration, mitigation) to the members of the Airsoft community in Canada.

Area of Responsibility: The council would be responsible for cases submitted by community members directly involved in a dispute. These disputes could be a result of trades/sales of equipment, local field regulations (primarily regulation establishment) or any other dispute involving one or more members of the community.

Council Members: The council would be made of several members from the Airsoft community who would coordinate dispute resolutions, set CASDRC mandates, regulations and policy, and help maintain an environment suitable to the growth of Airsoft in Canada. The council will be responsible for screening dispute resolution requests, ruling on the recommendations of Arbitrators and ensuring that resolutions are successfully applied. At any given time the Council will represent the distribution and disposition of Airsoft players throughout the country.

Arbitrators: Arbitrators would be picked on a dispute by dispute basis. These persons should be senior members of the community with no affiliation, familiarity or bias to the parties involved in a dispute. In some cases these persons may be required to have certain skills, degrees or standing as the Council sees fit to carry out dispute resolution. The Arbitrator will hear all sides of a dispute before making recommendations to the Council.

Dispute Submission: In order for a dispute to be brought before the CASDRC, all parties involved must agree to include the CASDRC in the resolution. A submission must be made to the Council who will than assign an Arbitrator suited to solve the dispute.

Decisions: After hearing from all concerned parties the Arbitrator will submit a report to the Council which summarizes fairly, the dispute and contains recommendations regarding a resolution. After reading the report the Council will decide if the recommendations are fair, and will resolve the dispute. Any Council members who have a direct relation to this dispute will not be included in the decision making panel.

Binding Resolutions: Before proceeding with dispute resolution, all parties involved must clearly agree to, understand and sign (in writing) to be legally bound by the decision of the CASDRC.

Just an idea, but if you are interested, please post. If enough people are interested I'll slap up a webpage quick somewhere. This really needs the support of senior members and team leaders (as well as their teams).

Don't flame, I want this kept civil, please.

Thanks,
Devon

[CalvinTat]

Not a bad idea, but thats a lot of work. To make this effective, the Disputees will have to (upon signing the Binding Resolutions) release any and all forms of communication between both parties (this shouldn't be a problem since most intelligent people keep all PMs regarding a deal until it is complete), provide photographic evidence of issue(s), and of course the biggest one of all (and hardest to prove/disprove) not falsifying information.

If possible members asked to be an Arbitrator not come from a place anywhere near the two individuals influenced by the dispute to avoid any biases. Maybe (although it is rather useless to even do so) ask a few members to provide character references.

This is a decent idea, but can it work...

[SockMonkey]

There is already a service similar to this available to all.... Court. Small Claims or otherwise. As grown ups we should be able to resove differences amongst our selves and not air all this dirty laundry to all who will see. People jump on bandwagons as the latest "problem with.." thread has shown. If some one is so agrieved that they feel the need to shit sling then they should also be willing to take it to the proper legal chanels available to all. As far as i know no one here is qualified to pass judgment tho i could be wrong.

Personaly i would not like some one trying to impose thier judgement with out the years of training and experience. We play soldier lets not play judge.

[Goldman]

Originally Posted by SockMonkey

There is already a service similar to this available to all.... Court. Small Claims or otherwise. As grown ups we should be able to resove differences amongst our selves and not air all this dirty laundry to all who will see. People jump on bandwagons as the latest "problem with.." thread has shown. If some one is so agrieved that they feel the need to shit sling then they should also be willing to take it to the proper legal chanels available to all. As far as i know no one here is qualified to pass judgment tho i could be wrong.

Personaly i would not like some one trying to impose thier judgement with out the years of training and experience. We play soldier lets not play judge.

You'd be suprised at how effective airing dirty laundry can be. Countless transactions have been completed or corrected due to peoples reputatiosn being put on the line. Ican only hope mine will too.

[recon]

People who are afriad of being put in the public eye have something to hide

[Brian McIlmoyle]

But it should fall within the mandate of a larger Ontario/ Canadian Airsoft Association.

such does not exist yet... but it will eventually

[Goldman]

Actually there is the OASA, Ontario Air sports association if i'm not mistaken.

[lt_poncho]

I think I speak for my team when I say something like this would be really useful to those who just don't feel they can get fair treatment - and quit altogether. Seems that the perogative of some is to capture as big of an audience as they possibly can, but zero incentive to focus on retaining that audience. Just keep them coming thru the door, right?

I've seen to many good players walk away in disgust, over things like this and other issues that need not include in this thread.

I'd support something like this - sans political Airsoft Association strings. The requirements are just not there.

[PTE. Pyle]

the idea sounds good in theory. I think what is needed more would be a nation governing body for airsoft comprised of reps from all the teams and clubs across the country. realistically all other sports have governing bodies. EG; hockey, football, swimming, if there were such a governing body to set certain guidelines then in turn a system like grave tech suggested could be set up.

my question is with out such a body if there were a council what authority would they have if either of the 2 parties in the dispute were not happy with the results of a ruling to say screw that and do what they want anyways.

[made Man]

And what keeps a scammer from telling this CASRDC to fuck off?
Are they going to send some wise guys to... persuade the offender?
Sounds too much like "accident insurance".

[Goldman]

Originally Posted by made Man

And what keeps a scammer from telling this CASRDC to fuck off?
Are they going to send some wise guys to... persuade the offender?
Sounds too much like "accident insurance".

In that regard its like the ICC, it is only really able to effect those who sign on to it. Unless sactions (removal from say ASC and or local clubs) could be imposed, there is no enforcement measure.

[GraveTech]

And now... a long winded reply.

CalvinTat: Arbitrators must not be involved with either parties in the dispute but in some cases a local Arbitrator may be necessary. The falsifying of information is always a concern and it is the responsibility of both the Arbitrator and disputee's to verify any information that is gathered for the report.

SockMonkey: Small Claims court does work, I am sure, but as Goldman says the "airing of dirty laundry" has some effect. The idea of the CASDRC is to keep this within the community, because there are people out there who will pay attention to what is being taken to court, and may raise a fuss. The last thing we need are headlines like "Judge throws gun case out of court" or "Guns seized after court ruling". Also, the council would not be made up of one person who passes judgement on the disputees; it would be a board of sufficient numbers and backgrounds to ensure that the reccomendations from the Arbitrator are sufficient to resolve the situation.

Bunny: Keep to the thread already started please, thank you.

Brian: I wish such a council existed now, and perhaps this should only be one part of it's birth.

lt_poncho: Thank you for the support.

PTE. Pyle: The parties would have signed a contract to abide by the ruling before the process began. If they say screw it, they are breaching a contract.

made Man: See above. Also note that in order for the CASDRC to become involved, both parties must agree to start the process; it could not be started by only one person.

Goldman: Until a sanctioning body can control airsoft games in a totalitarian way (and that may not be a good thing) there is no way to enforce rulings on those who don't sign contracts.

Thank you for the support and critcism, keep it coming,

Devon

[lt_poncho]

Originally Posted by GraveTech

Until a sanctioning body can control airsoft games in a totalitarian way (and that may not be a good thing) there is no way to enforce rulings on those who don't sign contracts.

There is a sanctioning body that controls Airsoft games - it's called HOST/FIELD OWNER. Don't get me wrong, I know what you are saying, but I think a lot of players need to get out of their backyard so to speak and go and visit these other fields in person - and make the realization that their 'mandates' are in line and in tune with most other fields. Sure there are slight exceptions but this is usually environmentally influenced – so really, where is the requirement for this association when, in theory, it’s already there? There’s not enough awareness on that topic.

Come on guys - road trip. It's worth it.

You can enforce these sorts of arbitration rulings if BOTH PARTIES agree to abide by arbitration in the first place – but like Pyle and MadeMan said – most people if not satisfied, will tell everyone to screw off and do what they want regardless. Good luck getting buy-in at that point.

Still, having aided in a few arbitrations myself, I support the idea, to whatever degree of formality it would need. Why not just make it a service for a start, instead of these overwhelming organizational schemas with various levels and ranks and broad sweeping organizations – sounds like this is something as simple as making someone a moderator on a dBoard.

[Skruface]

Originally Posted by lt_poncho

Come on guys - road trip. It's worth it.

Agreed. I've played in 3 different provinces (SK, MB, ON) and it gives you a much wider perspective on how the game (and the rules) are viewed/utilized.

On that note, when's O:CT3?

[Bunny]

What really should happen is that if two parties can't or won't agree or compromise, that the total cost of shipping and/or repairs be split, and each person takes a hit on that total. There's no other way without irrefutable proof. You could write it into the rules of asc's exchange sections(s). People who don't want to abide get banned. It's true what Poncho said though, people get so put off by dealing with dishonest people that they often prefer to just walk away, even quit airsoft altogether. In that case, there really is nothing left but court.

As to little firemachine, the whole thing really has nothing to do with you so give it a rest. And who 'called you on' or picked a fight? I made no threat.