Thinking about giving up and leaving AS...

[oOMuDOo]

Originally Posted by Raven

Bah... there will always be cheaters... or sometimes it is legitimate. When it happens... just shoot them again.. its part of the game... just make sure you shoot them where you know they will feel it eh! Also, if it becomes a pattern with certain players, just make sure you advise teh organizers.. they will take it into consideration next time they invite certain people!

Raven,

I kinda agree with you on this part. Even it I personally have rarely seen blatant cheating occur in front of my eyes.

The only negative thing about the type of attitude / response to "bulletproofness" it tends to get personal or escalate the matter.

Walking up to the player and kindly asking them if the felt the hit sort of diffuses the situation.

Any how... I'm still not done reading this thread.

@Hellranger - I just hope that the event that transpired after I hit you in the bean with my AEP last weekend did not set of a chain of event or made you saturated...

Like I have posted in the past. I do to miss the type of events that brougt me into this seen as for mentioned by Hell Ranger PQAC.

I still proudly wear my PQAC arm patch.

[C.G]

Just to add, for those that don't call hits, or cheat, with the community how it is (ASC wise atleast) and since it's for the most part a tight niche, after a while their rep would go down the tubes based on word of mouth too. At this point I'd hope, or think, most would want to be recognized as reputable people, that and there's no point not calling your hits, even if there isnt a respawn in a game, usually you get ample times to go back in

[Lakonian]

Originally Posted by swatt13

but your point is very true kos, and its going to take time to "calibrate" my play style with my ptw and my opponents. I depend on my skill as a player than my depending on my gun.

I missed that whole thing Sorry mate.

Yeah, people who upgrade their guns to unrealistic performance (1,100rpm @ 400fps) so they can "pwn" is stupid.

[F!reStorm*]

I dont want to start anything but I've given up on going to the usual QC games for the reason you mentioned in your first post. I'm playing airsoft, if I wanted to rank kills I'd join the kids and play paintball.

Everywhere you go there is a % of assholes, the more people you have the higher that % means. That said, the sport is growing and not much can be done to reduce that %.

It sucks but I'm personally very pro-private games, the quality is not even comparable.

HellRanger, don't give up bud! There's plenty of game coming in the future that will be worth going, that's for sure.

Originally Posted by HellRanger

Good points Mad, I fully agree with you.

Very well put and thanks for your input.

Sad to see that not many comments have been made by Quebec players thus far.

Migth be the language barrier again or are they simply ignoring this thread.

It has been a good read so far and lots of good/similar points have been made.

Keep 'em coming.

This thread might be useful afterall... Lots of hits, so I hope people are reading the comments being made and are learning a few things here and there.

[Scarecrow]

All good points but I think the cheating topic belongs in a separate thread. Its age old and not likely to ever be solved, except with a hicap and a steady steam of bbs until the offender suddenly feels it. I've purposely hosed someone who is bulletproof just to drive a point home. It usually works and if they come up and complain to me afterwards, its the perfect opportunity to discuss their bulletproof-like nature and they never win that argument.

[HellRanger]

I received a few more PMs and some IM messages as well from people that didn't wanna post in this thread or even on ASC for that matter.

One of them I saw get pissed on SO many occasions, but he never gave up.

What I think I will do them is be a little more picky in terms of events I attend. It's sad because up until failry recently I was ready to attend just about every event out there. All that remained was to drive to attend an event with the TO folks. We owe them a few, for I have seen them drive to our events on numerous occasions.

Sierra post was a carbon copy of the eMail he sent me at the office yesterday. And I owe him for taking the time to introduce me to the right people. I didn't discover AS, I saw Sierra looking at geared up kids with guns and I started asking questions. And it evolved from there. Poncho made certain my first riffle go to me from TO, he packed it with him and I picked it up at my first event.

So many people I have lots of respect for were here posting their opinions and support. So people also PM'd me with comments regarding me flipping on people sometimes, well that's the way I am. But if we allow people to act like fucking idiots and do jack shit about, who should we blame? We are to blame, for not doing our part. The "new generation" will not come and see us for guidance 'cause they know better, so we have to step in and put them back on the right track. In the future I will try not approach issues alone, I will discuss it with other trustworthy people around me and WE will approach the issue together. That way I will not the the type of comments like "You always complain..." and shit like that.


So thanks for everyone who showed supportand I hope it got a few of the "old fool dudes" (Vietnam war reference for "old timers") thinking. If some of the new gen. folks read some of this I hope you learned something from it.

This thread was not ment to discuss hits and such, but simply to voice my opinions and let poeple know why I was REALLY thinking about giving up.

But a good discussion came out of it, so it was not a waist of anybody's time. This is easy to see simply by the amount of time some people have taken to put their personal toughts down in a written format.

Thanks to all the friends I didn't realize I had, I will not take your recommendations lightly, but I will try to make some adjustments on my end. One thing I will not change, I will not and can not hold myself back from telling others when I think they are wrong. I also hope the old timers will not stop either.


Thanks again and god speed.

[Jackals]

Being 23 and consider myself a "vet" considering the ammount of time I have in the Ottawa Community, I am much like bruce. I enjoy both aspects of airsoft. Milsim is lots of fun, playing like your in real combat. Then skirmish side of it aswell. But like I said before, in the end its all about having fun.

The age gap is something that I have noticed. The majority of new players are very young. What we need is "old" guys like you HR to mentor these new guys.

Sadly you can not get rid of the cheating assholes out there, but like anything else in life, the good comes with the bad.

I Started when I was 18, I remember my first kill. If it wasn't for players like Rexter and TC who helped me along my way, I would have become a very different player.

I can not honestly count the number of times I have thought about quiting, and the times I actually did quit. Every time, I have come back. Like everyone has been saying, dont quit, take a break, but for the love of god, do not sell your stuff. The last thing this community needs is to loose another good player.

[empty_mags]

This month would have been counted as my 13th year playing airsoft had I not a few months ago given my resignation from airsoft to the Edmonton club and basically retired from it.
A lot of the stuff posted above is why. The airsoft scene in Edmonton is well beyond its peak of a few years ago when West-Can airsoft was still running.
There is no mislim scene in Edmonton anymore, and as already stated 90% of the new people just want a glorified version of a paintball game, and its fricking sad. People want to get all this gear, and these cool rifles, then they can't run a hundred meters wearing it all. With the people that do show up to a milsim when they actually get enough people to run it, half the people that show up can't even drive the body hard enough to go half the day before shutting it down.
The majority of people seem to be satisfied with "you half go that way, and you half go that way, we will meet up in the middle and shoot it out".

My experience has told me that the "fun" of just having skirmishes only lasts so long. I got WELL over that crap a decade ago. Trying to show newer people the light, I may as well just be banging my head against the wall.
So honestly I gave up trying, I am tired of it. The way these guys are going, without trying to evolve they are going to just be the people that play airsoft for two years then get bored of it and move on. Not the people like some of the vets, Raven, Poncho, and others that I have met over the years that do play for over a decade.

That, and there is so much devision now in Edmonton, and no one is putting in any effort to try to work together, so there is like 4 - 5 or something small groups of like 6 or 7 people that just like to do their own thing, and no one is contacting anyone else, or trying to work on bigger games. And when they do, its "come out to our day of skirmishes!".

Like I said, I am done wasting my time. I kept my AK, a few of my favorite bits of gear and clothing just incase something comes up that I want to attend. Most likely it would probably be held in Red Deer, Calgary, or Vancouver or something because I just can't see any good big games like the WCan games coming out of Edmonton until people decide to start working together again.

[Greylocks]

Want some problems to be aired?

Newbies ignoring the laws surrounding this game, or trying to find loopholes. Field owners trying to find loopholes to warrant getting a few more bucks. Internal politics. False accusations. Not being 'worthy' if your real life prevents you from gaming. Really retarded canadian laws. Bulletproof players (some are vets). Favoritism.

Until those things are fixed, there will be problems.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Greylocks

Want some problems to be aired?

Newbies ignoring the laws surrounding this game, or trying to find loopholes. Field owners trying to find loopholes to warrant getting a few more bucks. Internal politics. False accusations. Not being 'worthy' if your real life prevents you from gaming. Really retarded canadian laws. Bulletproof players (some are vets). Favoritism.

Until those things are fixed, there will be problems.

You can't fix such things as they are attributes of practically every recreational club out there.

None of the issues voiced in this thread are peculiar to "Airsoft"
They are common to all human social clubs... and that is what Airsoft is.. a group of likeminded ( mostly) enthusisats participating in an activitly for recreation and enjoyment.

in every club you find the vets bemoaning the noobs... and the noobs railing against the establishment... eventualy the Noobs become vets... and start bemoaning the new noobs.. while the "real" vets roll their eyes...

And the "real" vets... start saying things like" it just ain't like it used to be" and start leaving the activity.... while the noobs shout "good riddance" for a while until they realize what they lost... Then they embark on the process of becoming the new "real"vets.....

To stay engaged you have to pretty much carve your own niche... and invite like minded people along for the ride... We see this quite a bit in the Ontario community... where there is a large community and quite a number of different factions...

From paintballers come airsoft skirmishers... to "softcore" Milsim to Fantasy scenario affectionados.. through to "hardcore" milsim operators.. Fact is that none of these are really compatable with one another.. and there will always be dissatisfaction when different types come into proximity..

For me ... it puts a bad taste in my mouth when a game is touted as "milsim" and devolves to hosefest skirmishing.. when the wrong players show up at the wrong games.

As long as the right players come out to the right games everyone gets what they expect.

One of the issues is Hosts of games try to appeal to to broad a cross section of the community when setting up games. There is real reluctace to put in place limitations that will cause some players to avoid particular games...

The Fact is if a "realcap ammo load" and no Highcaps rule turns you off... then its is very likely that the game is not the kind you should be at anyway.

If We as Hosts... do a better job of catering to the niche that we prefer then there would be much less dissatisfaction with the outcome of the experience for the participants...

It is in my opinion the desire of Hosts to have "the largest game" with the "most players" that drive the activity deep into the realm of the lowest common denominator which is I'm sorry to say... the highcap toting "kid" in sloppy clothes who just graduated off the speedball field. By trying to appeal to a wide audience... we end up turning off the exact audience we exist for.

[Manaconda]

well put. On the nose.

[Vince]

I'm relatively new to airsoft (2nd summer), but even as a new guy I saw a change in the mentality of the new players. When I began I had all of my gear (aeg, vest etc etc) but some older players told me to do NPC first because I would see what the game was really about. My first 3 games where as either hostage, refugee or other. Man I haven't fired a shot but I had hell of a good time!!! Now all of the new guys wanna start running around and shooting right away. It's sad organiser can't even find 2-3 NPC...

[Tarkus]

I guess I'm coming on here a little late, but I'll put my part nonetheless.

I still consider myself a "new" player. Three years of fairly good attendance (except this year, a baby takes time ) I've seen and heard many things playing this game. Whining, bragging, cheating... but also, trust, respect, helpful hands, advices, friendship. And so I tend to go along Bruce's comment on the fact that all this is part of the game. The good people come from all backrounds... On the whole, people I've met playing the sport were friendly, helpful and respectful.

On my part, I know why I'm playing, and what I'm looking for. There are certain games I don't attend because I simply feel I won't get what I'm after. These games aren't for me, nothing less, nothing more. It's not against anyone, it's just that I don't feel I belong to that kind of playing. And so instead of going and then complaining, I refrain from attending and concentrate instead on what I do like in the sport.

Steven, you certainly count as one of the player I respect and admire the most, and I really can't picture you NOT playing airsoft. But I think I do understand what you're saying, and I'm longing for a good chat on the matter. There are many options out there, many things we can set up to care about why we play this game, and like others have said, there a many guys out there who are ready for it. I personnaly feel it's not about being elitist, it's about looking after our own fun.

JV

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Tarkus

I personnaly feel it's not about being elitist, it's about looking after our own fun.

JV

There is nothing wrong or bad about being perceived to be "Elitist"
If investing in good gear, owning more than 3 guns that have more than 2 mags and working on your personal skills and fitness to make yourself the best you can be in this activity lables you as elitist... well so be it..
I try to be elite in everything I do... I fail more often than not... but it beats trying to be "good enough"

Somewhere along the line... elite became a bad word...

Not everyone can afford to devote the resources to get the best gear,, ( or even good) or a full loadout of accessories for their weapons.. Thats fine as long as you do the best you can with what you have.. and keep striving..
But for those who invest the minimum.. and then complain about the "elitist bastards" excluding them from participation....I have little regard for them.

[Brakoo]

Well it seems like I've been too busy with work to see this thread.

I know many things have been said before but I'll say it anyway, Steven you better not quit airsoft, there is still some worthy players and events out there.

The main problem I see recently is people and game organisers not paying attention to the basics of airsoft such as respect and trust. So many games I've seen where you have newcomers playing and the organisers don't even take time to explain rules or any of that. Not giving them any kind of guidelines is not gonna make the new players fun to play with and that's a fact.

Personally I'd like to choose the games I attend but with my job I don't have every weekend offs so I end up going to whatever games I can go.

If I take saturday's game as an example, it wasn't the best game ever that's for sure but I mean the drive there with Hellranger and then the not so healthy pizza and poutine dinner are other things that made the day enjoyable. What I mean by that is that airsoft is more than just the actual games you attend, when you hang around the right people the actual game is just one small part of it.

I guess one things that needs to be done to help a bit in this problem is for game organisers to take their job seriously and have a good brief before each game just to make sure everyone clearly understands what the game should be about. Sure it's annoying to repeat the same thing over and over but it might prevent problems during the game.