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Old March 12th, 2010, 16:15   #106
pusangani
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Err, plastic bb's deform, these being silica and all and being harder n all...they don't

As for reusing, most if not all said that they were reusing as plinker bb's
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Old March 12th, 2010, 16:38   #107
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I would only reuse a BB for 203 nads.

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Old March 12th, 2010, 17:00   #108
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Silica behaves differently than styrene during impact. PM Scarecrow and he can give you the specifications on the crush strength, of styrene vs silica.

DIY test:
If you happen to have a MAX sample bag or Scarecrow's Silica's crush them in a set of vice grips (wear eye protection, put the BB and grips in a baggie), then do the same to a standard styrene BB.

Not scientific but the difference is night and day.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 17:05   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etd View Post
I will gladly text you my pictures I took from my phone. Instead of coming off as a smart ass maybe you should focus of something constructive. It's very Easy to do with a tightbore and an indoor environment with no wind directional factors.

As for the constructive remarks in the weight and energy transfer info was explained to me clearly in a friendly pm. Much appreciated. That pretty much solves my concerns. Thank you.


Maybe you should step the fuck back dude. Jay is trying to be impartial about HIS product. He didn't say you were lying and was simply making a joke.

Perhaps you should practice not coming off as a smart ass yourself.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 17:08   #110
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Lol actually it was "immature ass" before he edited it out, but he explained himself already, no need to clutter up the thread with arguments, stay on topic gents
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Old March 12th, 2010, 17:09   #111
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Originally Posted by Renegade) View Post
Ok ok, stand by gentlemen, I have a TM plastic lower kicking around. I will do shoot this receiver with 3 rounds that I have here. 2x with styrene .28, 2x with .28 Silica, and 2x with .40 Bastards.

Will post up the results.
Ok then! I performed the following test, with an M4 shooting approx 380 FPS, hop up OFF, with a witness and my camera taking pictures before each different round.

No Hopup therefore these are unaltered, random shots at the plastic lower.

Please Note that I am an official BB Bastard rep, I am mainly posting conclusions, unaltered in any form for the purpose of this discussion.

First shot is of the TM Plastic lower receiver pre any shots.



.28 Plastic, White, Styrene BB from aprox 10 feet. NO HOP.


Outlined in RED to show the impact marks


.28 Clear tempered glass BB from aprox 10 feet. NO HOP.



Outlined in BLUE to show the impact marks. As you can see, the top right shot, the indent is a little deeper than the plastic. Of course your eyes go right to the bottom where the second shot hit just above the magwell lip, and the pictures show the result..



.40 BB Bastard, Beige, BB from Aprox 10 feet. NO HOP

Outlined in BEIGE to show the impact marks. The first shot hit just to the right I assume of the magwell chip from the second SILICA round, and just took some more out of it. The second hit below the M, and left a beige mark. I found no real impact dents from the .40, they seemed to break appart very easy from impact.




These are my findings and results for the test. As I stated, unaltered, 10 feet, no hopup and just iron sights aimed. So pretty much random shots. The reason I chose 10 feet is that is the standard minimum engagement range for airsoft games, therefore that would be the minimum allowed for most shots to occur vs a plastic receiver.

Draw up your own conclusions! However they are pretty straightforward.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 17:15   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade) View Post
Ok then! I performed the following test, with an M4 shooting approx 380 FPS, hop up OFF, with a witness and my camera taking pictures before each different round.

No Hopup therefore these are unaltered, random shots at the plastic lower.

Please Note that I am an official BB Bastard rep, I am mainly posting conclusions, unaltered in any form for the purpose of this discussion.

First shot is of the TM Plastic lower receiver pre any shots.



.28 Plastic, White, Styrene BB from aprox 10 feet. NO HOP.


Outlined in RED to show the impact marks


.28 Clear tempered glass BB from aprox 10 feet. NO HOP.



Outlined in BLUE to show the impact marks. As you can see, the top right shot, the indent is a little deeper than the plastic. Of course your eyes go right to the bottom where the second shot hit just above the magwell lip, and the pictures show the result..



.40 BB Bastard, Beige, BB from Aprox 10 feet. NO HOP

Outlined in BEIGE to show the impact marks. The first shot hit just to the right I assume of the magwell chip from the second SILICA round, and just took some more out of it. The second hit below the M, and left a beige mark. I found no real impact dents from the .40, they seemed to break appart very easy from impact.




These are my findings and results for the test. As I stated, unaltered, 10 feet, no hopup and just iron sights aimed. So pretty much random shots. The reason I chose 10 feet is that is the standard minimum engagement range for airsoft games, therefore that would be the minimum allowed for most shots to occur vs a plastic receiver.

Draw up your own conclusions! However they are pretty straightforward.
Damage between the first 2 types of bb's to the receiver look the same to me, the .40 did a lot more damage i think then the other two types to the tm plastic.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 17:34   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackthorne View Post
He didn't say you were lying and was simply making a joke.
Actually it wasn't even a joke, I thought it was pretty remarkable thats all.

Renegade, thanks for the sacrafice of the plastic lower. I've had plastic receivers damaged by .25's back in the Deadlands days. Thats what prompted me to go to a metal receiver - well, that and realism.

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Originally Posted by TaroBear View Post
Err, for those who are reusing these BBs...I thought BBs microscopically deformed after they impact something? Why is it okay with these ones?
The silica's don't deform - the material virtually guarantees that. You CANNOT deform it, it catastropically disintegrates when you do reach the crush levels to actually affect the BB. So if the Silica is intact after shooting it, its good to shoot again. Although I recommend one provisio and thats a quick inspection to ensure there are no chips on the BBs. The chips could lead to sharp edges that could tear your hopup as it passes through. But if you use a cardboard box stuffed with burlap (my standard backstop for testing) there should be no risk of that. I've fired them against concrete and they've remained intact with no chips, but its still a possibility.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 17:35   #114
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I've got a spare un-usable but great physical condition TM plastic body as well. If I had picked up some of the clears at the convention like I should've, I could've done another test just to have 2 independent tests of the same nature done.

Good test tho, Renegade.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 17:41   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etd View Post
I'd be more inclinded (this is an assumption) to thinnthat clear lowers would be less durable so a plastic quality tm would be nice.
Actually I was over at Velocity Arms booth at TAC10 having a look at Frank's clear lower customs and I concluded the opposite - I thought VA's clear lowers were more robust that the material used by TM for their bodies. But thats just an anecdotal observation.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 17:43   #116
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Considering he slammed the body with a hammer multiple times and it did not break (the video is up here somewhere), and the TMs I feel like I could break with my hand.. Or at least a small strike with a hammer, I would agree with Scarecrow on that.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 17:44   #117
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Silica Information

Silica (SiO2) is one of the chief constituents of the earth’s crust. It is present in various forms, the most being quartz which is crystalline in character. Typical examples are siliceous sands and rock crystal. There are also various other crystalline forms such as tridymite and cristoblite. All types when fused at 2000C give a vitreous material. Fused Silica Glass is a unique material with an unrivalled combination of purity, high temperature resistance, thermal shock resistance, good electrical insulation, optical transparency and chemical inertness. This material is widely used in the production processes of the semi-conductor industries.

The outstanding characteristic of silica glass is its very high degree of purity (99.99% SiO2).

It also has excellent thermal properties with an extremely low coefficient of expansion 0.55 x 106cm/cmC (0-300C). This makes the material particularly useful for optical flats 7 furnace windows, where its minimal sensitivity to thermal changes is of benefit. Another related property is its high resistance to thermal shock. Thin sections can be heated and cooled rapidly without cracking. Some technical references report, heating the material to 1100C, then plunging into cold water with no adverse effects.

Data
Softening Point 1683C
Density 2.20 x 103Kg/m3
Annealing Point 1215C
Strain Point 1120C
Rigidity Modulus 32 x 106KN/m2
Continuous Operating Temp 1000C
Compressive Strength 20 x 106KN/m2
Electrical Information
Tensile Strength 70 x 103KN/m2
Electrical Resistivity 2 x 1019 ohm cm at 20C
Shear Strength 70 x 103KN/m2
2 x 106 ohm cm at 800C
Moh’s Hardness 6
Dielectric Strength 10KV/mm at 20C
Total Metallic Impurities 10ppm (Typical)
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Old March 12th, 2010, 19:11   #118
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I'm still hoping I'll be able to get my hands on a sample of these BBs for some other testing.

Among other things I want to see how safe/dangerous they are around vehicles, considering many events have cars/trucks around on the field (either as part of the game, or to ferry gear/game officials, etc).
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Old March 12th, 2010, 19:19   #119
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I'm still hoping I'll be able to get my hands on a sample of these BBs for some other testing.

Among other things I want to see how safe/dangerous they are around vehicles, considering many events have cars/trucks around on the field (either as part of the game, or to ferry gear/game officials, etc).
Uh yeah the bb's win.. I shot out a window of a scrap car from about 100 feet away, up close, ect doesnt matter, these go right through because of the direct impact force already gone over.

This is a big reason why they have a warning right on the label... so use around your vehicle, house, ect at risk.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 23:41   #120
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Out of curiousty does having your hopup spin set to high or low change the velocity? So cyma clear plastic bodies are just to brittle I guess ... I'd expect nothing paying $200 for a new gun.
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