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Old March 11th, 2010, 16:13   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatlander View Post
Unless you provide more details, your results prove nothing of use.

- Did you shoot the bottles with lighter weights and it didn't break? Just heavier weights? What ranges were you firing from...this is the big kicker because heavier weights will have higher velocities than lighter BB's at ~50'+.

- What does shooting lexan prove? How does this help prove how "dangerous" these are or are not? All it proves is that if you have a lexan gun it'll turn to swiss-cheese. Were your weights the same between the plastic and silicon BB's? At what range were they fired from?

Didnt' see this because some posts where deleted from the thread and this was bumped up,

Yes I did shoot the bottles with lighter BB's. .12, .20. .23, .25 from Bastard, Excel, Madbull, daisy or crossman. Never did they break the bottle at any range <30ft. Only when you brought the muzzle directly against the bottle and emptied a hicap mag in a single burst, did you get some compression in the glass or spiderwebbing but never did a bottle just shatter. Shooting at bottles is not scientific either we just had many of them and their were wild stories on the internet about windshields being exploded.

Lexan RC shells can be ~0.01mm in thickness and they are stronger per weight than glass. This was more of a what else do we have to shoot other than metals & nylon. We where looking for something to shoot that was a soft surface and we could measure deformation. We didnt have foam but we had sheets of lexan. We fired at the lexan at point blank and up to 30ft. This had nothing to do with how dangerous the BB's where but how they behaved at various weights, materials, & against different materials.

The Max BB's never penetrated lexan at velocities 350-700 (w0.2) at ranges from point blank up to 30ft fired from both AEG and Gas rifle for FPS >420. (gas rifle is important since we cannot chrono the MAX but used a .20 to chrono)

Styrene BB's at point blank would shoot clean through the lexan at velocities > 500FPS. At ranges >30ft would just barely be stopped (lexan has a hole in is but the BB doesnt penetrate, or shoot through.

although not relevant or a big surprise we turned the plastic handguards on a G&G M16 into small chunks of plastic at point blank @ 400 FPS.

This was all done to see if the internet rumours where true about glass/windshields/plastic components on guns and RC. Never was this originally intended to be a "are these BB's dangerous". After seeing all of the damage that was done I concluded that the BB's where safe for use if you where not concerned about the possibility of breaking anything on the field. If your local paintball field has tonnes of cars with the glass on the windshields, or your indoor place has lots lighting that can be shot out don't use em.

However...

What I apparently completely missed until reminded when reading this was that heavy styrene BB's do the same damage to the same items that we shot the MAX against. I recall sending scarecrow several PM's and trading emails about this and his reply was that he was not surprised at all, and if his BB's where not performing that well then that would be bad.
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Old March 11th, 2010, 17:15   #92
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My team and I have done some tests on are side also.

We tested with a 390 fps M4. The results gave us some concern but interesting discussion about energy transfer vs fps came from it.

I would think that playing with this type of ammo could be good for 350 fps sniping or 300 fps AEG or 250 hand guns considering the transfer of energy.

Playing with this type of ammo could bring lower fps and "maybe" more safety to the game. But more testing would be need to confirm my theory. Would people be willing to loose range for accuracy? The concept of not seeing your bullet when you shoot is more milsim spirit?

I'm not looking to change anything but just take a minute and think what changes could be done for a more positive playing experience with this new type of ammo.

Then again sometimes change is not good...
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Old March 11th, 2010, 23:26   #93
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I just want to mention I used clears on my sig 552 plastic body (cyma) with a grouping of 3 bbs at 10 meters with an m120 spring and they cracked the he'll out of it. I've taken to many bbs to count at or near the same range with whites with no poblems *edit(besides the odd dent)*. I would support these bbs for snipers only right now as I don't mind having the odd bb hitting my gun. I see a major issue with spray and prayers hurting my equipment and forcing me to make costly repairs. I am all for stealth and I know I am not a tester but rules need to be officially accepted as a community to use these things in my opinion.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 12:17   #94
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@ etd and Moogy,

Do the same tests but shoot 0.30 - 0.36 BB's (different brands if possible) at the same materials and targets.

If a styrene .30 - .36 does the same damage to your gun should be ban these BB's as well?
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Old March 12th, 2010, 12:25   #95
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The damage will be considerably less. Again this is because styrene BBs deform or crack upon impact with something solid whereby it will loss considerable amounts of kinetic energy that is not lost by the silica BBs upon impact.

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Old March 12th, 2010, 13:18   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etd View Post
I just want to mention I used clears on my sig 552 plastic body (cyma) with a grouping of 3 bbs at 10 meters with an m120 spring and they cracked the he'll out of it.
Wow, you maintained a 3 round burst at 33 feet and hit a 552 receiver all three times? Thats great grouping!
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Old March 12th, 2010, 13:33   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Do View Post
The damage will be considerably less. Again this is because styrene BBs deform or crack upon impact with something solid whereby it will loss considerable amounts of kinetic energy that is not lost by the silica BBs upon impact.

SHA DO
As you increase the weight the density goes up, and you will end up with similar results as to the silica's.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 14:16   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarecrow View Post
Wow, you maintained a 3 round burst at 33 feet and hit a 552 receiver all three times? Thats great grouping!
I will gladly text you my pictures I took from my phone. Instead of coming off as a smart ass maybe you should focus of something constructive. It's very Easy to do with a tightbore and an indoor environment with no wind directional factors.

As for the constructive remarks in the weight and energy transfer info was explained to me clearly in a friendly pm. Much appreciated. That pretty much solves my concerns. Thank you.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 14:19   #99
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Etd, that is not a test. Unless you performed the same thing with plastic bb's your results aren't valid. Just sayin "I've been hit many times with plastic" is not a substitute for duplicating the test conditions with Plastic bb's


That kind of thing is what holds back progress and encourages rumours and paranoia.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 14:54   #100
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Understood.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 14:58   #101
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Quote:
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I will gladly text you my pictures I took from my phone. Instead of coming off as a smart ass maybe you should focus of something constructive.
I beg your pardon?

I wasn't being a smart ass, I thought maintaining a grouping at 33 feet tight enough to hit a receiver as a target was pretty amazing, given the size of a receiver. I was commenting on the accurized properties of the silicas. You're rather fast to take offence to something that wasn't even posted that way.

I would be interested in your pictures, please post them.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 15:11   #102
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Sorry man I am on edge. Had all 4 wisdom teeth pulled at 9 this morning. I can text them only through mms. No comp just a sexy iPhone. The Body was hit and cracked near the trigger guard, magwell (unsure if this was because it was hit twice near the place or if it's just a fissure crack that expanded on the second bbs impact) and the third was on the upper *edit* part of the lower receiver *end edit* (still the same clear cyma plastic body painted black. I am pretty sure only the sender pays the mms charge so it shouldn't cost you anything.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 15:31   #103
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Ok ok, stand by gentlemen, I have a TM plastic lower kicking around. I will do shoot this receiver with 3 rounds that I have here. 2x with styrene .28, 2x with .28 Silica, and 2x with .40 Bastards.

Will post up the results.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 15:40   #104
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I'd be more inclinded (this is an assumption) to thinnthat clear lowers would be less durable so a plastic quality tm would be nice. Sacrecrow if you don't have an mms capable phone if you give me a day or two I am sure I can find a buddy who I can mms than he can post them here or pm them to you. Let me know.
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Old March 12th, 2010, 16:06   #105
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Err, for those who are reusing these BBs...I thought BBs microscopically deformed after they impact something? Why is it okay with these ones?
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