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BB Bastard Silica .28g bb's

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Old March 9th, 2010, 07:44   #1
Kokanee
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BB Bastard Silica .28g bb's

I sat down and did some testing on the new BB Bastard .28g silica rounds that Jay was kind enough to give me a bag of. Two tests, with more to come once I can hit up the LZ;

Ballistic Eyewear test;



BA rifle @440fps from 10 feet. ESS NVG Profile smoke lense.

The silica rounds did not break, and did not deform leaving a small crater in the surface of the lense. The regular rounds did break against the lense, leaving an oily residue. You can really see just how much the stock bb deformed, the oily residue it left behind shows that a much larger area made surface contact than the silica round.

Wound test;



Someone had to do it, for science! So ow.... GBB Pistol @ 330 fps from 5 feet. The regular bb left a mark, no broken skin. The silica round left quite a mark and developed into a blood blister, did not break skin.

Initial conclusions;

So far based off these two tests, the concerns over the silica rounds not deforming and henceforth transferring more energy to whatever they hit seems to be quite valid. There is enough of a difference between the two types of rounds that I would not ever use the silica rounds for a person-on-person game, only a CAPS session or target shooting.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 08:29   #2
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Took one for the team, eh? Lol

I've mixed views on the silica BBs, since the type came up I never really saw much point in them, except maybe being 'environmentally neutral'. Apparently Testie got a bag to test, so in upcoming months when I'm actually at home and able to I'll do some more accuracy/chrony testing.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 10:03   #3
Lestat
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Re: BB Bastard Silica .28g bb's

For a sport still striving for broader acceptance and growth, I greaty question any move that may increase risk or harm. Some of the same arguments about using these are equally applied to a steel bb hypothetical, why don't we use those? (Yes, that's sarcasm)

As someone new to the sport, I will want to know up front which hosts are allowing these rounds - so I know not to attend...
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Old March 9th, 2010, 10:09   #4
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Pffft...that's just the entry wound from the silica BB....now photograph the other side of your body and show the exit wound! just kidding.

And using them for CAPS? I do NOT like them. They ricochet like crazy where as regular BBs tend to break up. We often have wall partitions angled behind the targets to deflect shoot throughs...but with a whole range in use there are bounce backs on occasion. With hard BBs that won't shatter...the incoming rounds are going almost as fast as they are outgoing.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 10:35   #5
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definitely dont want silica's used at a game. the lens test is proof enough of that.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 10:43   #6
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Honestly I can say that I like them. Not in AEGs, where in the hands of an unskilled player, they could do some damage.
....... but for the BA's, where we already have an established MED (which would continue to reduce the chance for stupid mistakes related to range issues with the silica BBS). However, I'm gonna have to wait for Stalker to do his review on the silica's as 0.28s are just too light for style of sniping.

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Old March 9th, 2010, 10:46   #7
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I could see these being implimented if we played at say 200fps-250fps... But at the current FPS of AEGS and BAs yah, no way. 800Rounds per minute from an AEG at 350fps with those will be enough to go through a lense in I would guess 5-8 well placed rounds?


would you be able to test?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Do View Post
Honestly I can say that I like them. Not in AEGs, where in the hands of an unskilled player, they could do some damage.
....... but for the BA's, where we already have an established MED (which would continue to reduce the chance for stupid mistakes related to range issues with the silica BBS). However, I'm gonna have to wait for Stalker to do his review on the silica's as 0.28s are just too light for style of sniping.

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I thought most snipers liked to be able to trace there rounds would a clear round not make that impossible?
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Old March 9th, 2010, 10:58   #8
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Renegade did a bit of testing and said you can see them well enough to track for a distance, but not sure how far that'd be. I wondered the same thing when I started using the Bastard green 0.36g, but I can track them just fine.

Like Sha Do said, for sniper use, they are too light, so unlikely I'll use them in place of the 0.36g, but I'll fire some off for distance when I get a chance to.......... like after the snow disappears. Lol
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Old March 9th, 2010, 12:14   #9
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Is there any way to test the impact force? Many have said we should start judging how hot a gun is based on the joules, not the FPS given the fact that varying weights offer varying speeds but still producing similar impact forces. Would it be feasible to use some device that measures the impact force for these rounds (or any rounds for that matter) akin to how a chrony measures velocity? The "pain" test shown here does have the idea in mind but without actual readouts the whole "this one hurts more" doesn't really carry much in terms of concrete evidence.

Since talks of silica BBs came about with Bioval Ive had apprehensions about these being used in games. The more I read the more mixed reviews I have found. Now that we have a local supplier and manufacturer interest locally is growing, and more tests are being done. Thankfully our manufacturer and supplier is allot more willing to disclose any and all information regarding the round so there is less clouding in the information.

I still will reserve judgement on these until I see their effects first hand but so far it doesn't sound like something I'd like to have incoming when at a game. My understanding of the lenses we use is that every time there is a direct hit, the lifespan is dropped and the chances or breaking or cracking the lens grows. Personally as soon as I get a direct hit on the lens I take a careful examination and determine if I still feel comfortable using it. I have not had a lens last more than 3 direct hits before I had them replaced. Once we get more definitive results in terms of impact force (point blank, 5 feet, 10 feet, 20 feet, etc...) instead of purely muzzle velocity, and when I am able to see how these rounds react then I would make my own judgement call on whether or not I feel comfortable having these used in games I participate in.

For the time being, and from second hand information from various credible people I feel these should remain for those utilizing them for target shooting since they have been getting stellar reviews as far as ballistics is concerned.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 12:24   #10
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Some chrony's come equipped to measure joules, I know the Fidragon ones I used to sell did.

People have been gaming them and we haven't heard of anyone dying or their lenses being shot out, but yes with the increased hardness there can be a risk.

And for the last time, we cannot use them at CAPS as any clear bb's are not allowed at TTAC3 due to the difficulty of cleaning them up.

Time will tell if these things will become accepted, people need to read and understand the testing results before making their decisions.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 13:36   #11
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I used them for caps for a bit before I got informed that they are a no no... They weren't hard to track at all. Blacks are much harder. You still get the refraction of the light as they travel down range.

I do believe maddog uses the clears, and I've never had a problem. (correct me if I'm wrong.)

I've got more concerns with Bios compared to clears...
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Old March 9th, 2010, 13:44   #12
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Can you imagine getting one in the teeth!!!

Never mind not using them... dont play against them

can you say.... Dental work !!!

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Old March 9th, 2010, 14:11   #13
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Why is everyone so quick to dismiss new airsoft technology available for use. I admit I am an early adopter of any technology that can help improve my game. (BB Bastard Clear, Madbull LifePO, etc.) My guns are workhorses not show pieces and my money goes into functional upgrades for performance not looks. These BB's fall squarely into the performance upgrade area.

We have already proven these do not go through any type of mask at point blank range that is rated to withstand ballistic hits. This includes shooting glasses, PB goggles and mesh goggles.

Any .25 BB shot at any goggles, at point blank range, at over 400 FPS will deform the goggle in some fashion. As long as it defeats the threat, what are people concerned about. I have yet to see a game where someone puts the barrel to your goggles and pulls the trigger. And even if they did, you would still be ok.

Lets move on to teeth, if you get shot at a range close enough to crack teeth, any .25 BB weight of higher will do the job, silica would not be the only culprit. Those that are concerned about this wear mouth guards for the amount of time it happens.

Now the "ouch" factor. To me this is a non-issue. When did we become worried about pain. To me the silica may sting more buts leaves less of a bruise. It does not mash and disperse causing a bigger bruise. (FMJ vs. hollow point??????) People wear so much gear and shrug hits now, I welcome any BB that hits "slightly" harder (if at all) and gives more felt impact. I am sick of hearing "I did not feel it". Those individuals have less of a leg to stand on now.

The ballistic properties are great, they shoot consistent and so far the 3 times I have used them have been great with no complaints (And I shoot alot of people There is a downside and that is they cannot be seen when you are shooting in bright sunlight in the open without a dark backdrop like a tree line. You need to have your hop up dialed in, and trust it, if you are out in the open in a grassfield)

Embrace the new, this is what people were saying about LIPO a year and half ago, you don't hear much about that anymore.

MD
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Last edited by MADDOG; March 9th, 2010 at 15:42..
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Old March 9th, 2010, 14:15   #14
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Originally Posted by MADDOG View Post
Why is everyone so quick to dismiss new airsoft technology available for use.

We have already proven these do not go through any type of mask at point blank range that is rated to withstand ballistic hits. This includes shooting glasses, PB goggles and mesh goggles.

Any .25 BB shot at any goggles, at point blank range, at over 400 FPS will deform the goggle in some fashion. As long as it defeats the threat, what are people concerned about. I have yet to see a game where someone puts the barrel to your goggles and pulls the trigger. And even if they did, you would still be ok.

Lets move on to teeth, if you get shot at a range close enough to crack teeth, any .25 BB weight of higher will do the job, silica would not be the only culprit. Those that are concerned about this wear mouth guards for the amount of time it happens.

Now the "ouch" factor. To me this is a non-issue. When did we become worried about pain. To me the silica may sting more buts leaves less of a bruise. It does not mash and disperse causing a bigger bruise. (FMJ vs. hollow point??????) People wear so much gear and shrug hits now, I welcome any BB that hits "slightly" harder and gives more felt impact. I am sick of hearing "I did not feel it". Those individuals have no leg to stand on now.

The ballistic properties are great, they shoot consistent and so far the 3 times I have used them have been great with no complaints (And I shoot alot of people )

Embrace the new, this is what people were saying about Lipo a year and half ago, don't hear much about that anymore.

MD
Thank you. Wear a mouth guard and quit being pansies.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 14:16   #15
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Thanks for the testing Kokanee, your skin test was brave (gulp) but very very interesting - so is your conclusion that the impact of silicas creates greater damage against bare skin versis styrene validates what I thought would be the case - but you did do a 5 foot test (virtually point blank) - was it straight on or did you use a deflection angle?
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