Airsoft Canada
MILSIG

Go Back   Airsoft Canada > Information Center > Newbie Tank
Home Forums Register Gallery FAQ Calendar
Retailers Community News/Info International Retailers IRC Today's Posts

Hopup/BB flight path chart

:

Newbie Tank

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 4th, 2010, 14:15   #1
mHo2
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Hopup/BB flight path chart

Does anyone have access to what a perfect BB shot would look like over a distance(of lets say 100ft)? It would really be helpful for newbies setting their hopup for the first time.
mHo2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2010, 14:17   #2
Amos
 
Amos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tokushima, Japan
Send a message via MSN to Amos
... There's no real chart...

Turn it until it goes far... then it'll start flying up a little at the end of the flight path.. when it does that you back it off until it goes straight then a normal drop..
__________________
Custom Builds:
FA3674U
Krinkov
G3SD6
Amos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2010, 14:25   #3
TokyoSeven
Red Wine & Adderall
 
TokyoSeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Saskatoon, SK
If there was a chart my best guess would be that it should look something like this


---->---->---->---->---->---->---->---->--O

------------------------100feet/31.25 meters^
__________________


"Its only a little bit on fire"
TokyoSeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2010, 14:33   #4
coach
aka coachster
 
coach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: T dot
Borrowing this from airsoftforums.com. Not my work!

first hit in a google search for hopup BB flight path chart:
http://www.google.ca/search?q=hopup+...ient=firefox-a



What Is Hop Up?

For those of you who do not know what hop up is in the first place, it is the backspin put on a bb as it brushes by a hop up nub near the top of the barrel. The nub causes friction which makes the bottom of the bb slip out faster than the top to create a predictable spin. This all works with the Bernoulli principle to case a lift on the bb that can negate gravity for a longer amount of time giving your bb more range and a straighter path. Here is a simple diagram provided by airsplat of how it works:



How Does It Affect You?
Now that we understand how hop up works and the function of hop up we will discuss the issues that occur, particularly with snipers.

Theoretically hop up should have absolutely no effect on accuracy other than vertical accuracy. Since the hop up is only supposed to create backspin, the bb trajectory should not be effected left or right. I say theoretically because in an ideal world we would all hold our guns perfectly level, and if you want to get that perfect shot every time you will want to make this ideal world a reality.

The problem really is that the hop up nub is at a fixed point while your position is not.
When you hold your rifle perfectly level the results should follow a straight trajectory:



If you were to, let's say, tilt your rifle to the right on your shot the results would follow a trajectory curving to the right:



These conditions are magnified on snipers as their bbs spend even more time in the air. The further the shot the more hop up, especially right or left spin, will affect the trajectory. Whereas hop up on a level shot will simply stop its resistance and begin to drop, gravity will not negate the effects of an non-level shot but simply direct them at a more downward angle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (silent_soul @ Jul 9 2009, 11:10 AM)
what im saying is a bbs flight path that is straight is easier to use than when that bbs path arcs up and back down. with that said if you can get a gun to shoot almost completely straight with almost no arc(thus straight with good range) it wont matter if the gun is perfectly level.

I have never found a use and probably wont for a level but thats thanks to the days of shooting with RS and airsoft ive done.

I understand what your saying but it seems more theory and a good idea than actual proven method. and I only say this as I have never set up a gun to shoot with a large arc or any unless I had no other choice. with that said I aim to get my guns shooting as flat as possible thus a level is unneeded. plus I rarely shoot past 200 feet so a level shooting gun out to 200 feet is nothing impressive.
Okay I understand what you are trying to say now and to an extent I agree. The only issue is that when your hop-up is adjusted to get your bb to fly in a straight path as you were talking about it means that the bbs spin is canceling out the effect of gravity for a given distance. That means that the lift is equal to the force of gravity. When the gun is not level then the spin is now creating lift in a different area of the bb. What used to be equal to the force of gravity in all directions is now unequal as the lift is now in a different position which requires less lift than given by what creates a straight shot on a level plane. I will explain it with pictures and Trigonometry/physics.




Okay if your bb is flying perfectly straight as you have said this would be the exact lift, that is, the force of lift on the bb would be equal to the 9.8m/s^2 force of gravity and the bb would not fall at all. We also assume there is no force or equal force horizontally on the bb as we said it flies straight.



Now let's say you shot on a 45 degree angle just to make the math easier. Given this angle and assuming we are using the exact same hop-up with the exact same result of spin (ie the force in both examples is the same) then with some trigonometry we can calculate that the force of the bb is changed from the previous shot. In fact, now the bb is falling with a force of 1.46m/s^2 and is moving to the right with a force of 8.34m/s^2.


So How Can I Fix It?
The solutions are few but all are relatively simple.

One method would be good old fashion practice. You simply need to learn what it feels like when it is level and be able to maintain this while under the stress of battle.

Some people have posted about epoxying a small level to their rifle that they can quickly glance at before taking a shot. The level could be placed anywhere you chose on your rifle but I would suggest placing it somewhere it cannot catch light as they are often a clear plastic and have a liquid, both of which can cause a reflection that could give you away.

You can also find scope levels at various places online with a Google search.


http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/Ho...s-t155233.html


edit: images hosted on my pb account.

Last edited by coach; March 4th, 2010 at 14:39..
coach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2010, 15:06   #5
Danke
 
Danke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Danger Zone
I think perfect for long range has a bit more of a waveform in the path vs. laser straight.
__________________
Airsoft, where nothing is hurt but feelings.
Danke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2010, 15:33   #6
Scarecrow
A Total Bastard
 
Scarecrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tottenham
Send a message via Skype™ to Scarecrow
Great post of how hopups work!
__________________
LIKE us on Facebook!!
Scarecrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2010, 15:39   #7
Sha Do
 
Sha Do's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: No where to be seen......Hillsburgh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarecrow View Post
Great post of how hopups work!
Ditto!! Great find Coachster....now I can send the rookies to this thread.

SHA DO
Sha Do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2010, 15:55   #8
coach
aka coachster
 
coach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: T dot
no problem fellas. it was a simple copy and paste from the first google hit! is that a subtle enough hint to the rooks?
coach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2010, 18:32   #9
Zippy24
 
Join Date: May 2009
You could also read the airsoft trajectory project since it has parts with hop up in it but it also includes how temperature, wind and altitude affects the bb. Also has a lot of pretty charts that include most fps.

http://mackila.com/airsoft/ATP/index.htm
Zippy24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2013, 09:48   #10
TangoHotel
 
TangoHotel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Timmins, Ontario
Great work! When i fire bb's out of my aeg while hopup is turned on, they wont curve up, but curve either to the left or right :S So i just said to hell with it and turned off my hopup for now lol What would do that? A dirty inner barrel? The bb's?
And also, i do not tilt my gun to the left or right when it does this.

Last edited by TangoHotel; August 31st, 2013 at 09:50..
TangoHotel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2013, 14:05   #11
ThunderCactus
Not Eye Safe
 
ThunderCactus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary...now with less oil industry than eco-hipster Vancouver
What kind of gun
what fps
what brand/weight of ammo are you using
__________________
Tamiya connectors suck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swatt13 View Post
i never understood why the oil refinery had a brothel... i never see them at the refineries i work at this is bull!
ThunderCactus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2013, 22:23   #12
TangoHotel
 
TangoHotel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Timmins, Ontario
Sorry about that, should of specified in earlier post. It's an echo 1 m4 troy mrf-mx, i did not test the fps myself but it says it was tested and fired at 400fps on box with .20g , i am using .25g.

Darn almost forgot the brand :S Its velocity arms double refined premium bbs, i made sure to get ''decent'' bbs...I would of got bb bastards but as you must know..they are almost always sold out lol

Last edited by TangoHotel; August 31st, 2013 at 23:35..
TangoHotel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2013, 01:46   #13
ThunderCactus
Not Eye Safe
 
ThunderCactus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary...now with less oil industry than eco-hipster Vancouver
should be using .28s at the very least at 400fps or .30s
and your stock hop rubber is probably crap, get a PDI-w and see how well that works
__________________
Tamiya connectors suck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swatt13 View Post
i never understood why the oil refinery had a brothel... i never see them at the refineries i work at this is bull!
ThunderCactus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2013, 09:40   #14
TangoHotel
 
TangoHotel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Timmins, Ontario
I'm gona order me a bag of .30g and a hop up bucking, but is pdi-w a must have or are there other brands i can go with?

Last edited by TangoHotel; September 2nd, 2013 at 11:38..
TangoHotel is offline   Reply With Quote
ReplyTop


Go Back   Airsoft Canada > Information Center > Newbie Tank

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Airsoft Canada
MILSIG

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.