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Old February 14th, 2010, 10:00   #91
Mr.Shiney
 
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I have worked in Mental Health, and have a vast amount of experience with young persons that have various forms of serious personal issues in conjunction with Mental Health Disorders. In my experience a person that is blaming their personal behaviour/conduct on their illness is:

1) Too immature and unable to take any actions that require a sense of accounting for their actions. They are using the fact of an official label of the disorder/disease simply as a scapegoat. They constantly get themselves into a difficult situation, simply to say - Its not my fault, I have a mental illness (insert DSM reference here).

OR

2) They are unable to determine or display any understanding of the nature and quality of their actions as they are under the influence of their mental health issues. Their disease/disorder has so taken control of their lives, thinking, behaviour of this individual, that they need to be in care, or at least under Clinical Supervision. If this is the case it would probably be best if you or any player would take a voluntary time out from the game.

So which is it, either you choose to be a Numpty, or you need to take a time out to have you personal situation dealt with by mental health professionals.

I have no personal issue that you or any other player may have to deal with the evils of a mental health issue. I have seen how it can so negatively impact someone's life. I know some that have a mental health history are unwilling to disclose it, as they do not want to be labelled. But consider at least one in fifteen Canadians have been impacted by having some mental health issues and one in six know someone who have a serisous mental health issue. So mental health concerns are far more common that most people believe or understand.

If you are practising Normal Safe and Responsible Handling at all times. As well as not negatively impacting the Sport that we all love. I would have no issue taking the field with any player, regardless of their mental health status.
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Old February 14th, 2010, 10:14   #92
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This is quickly turning into something other than constructive. Personal issues should be dealt with personally, not on a public forum. Behaviour at a game or event is one thing, things like this need to be asked of the accused before being disclosed publicly.

You guys mention not wanting to label anyone, well congrats cause you just did.

Keep in mind, this has nothing to do with my personal opinion on the matter. I've never gamed with the guy but I have hung out with him shooting airguns/airsoft before and had zero qualms about safety. That being said, unless I missed it and he stated he didn't mind info like that being disclosed, I think this has gone a little off topic and a little too far.
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Old February 14th, 2010, 10:19   #93
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I have no objections labelling anyone. If the guy's a menace, he's a menace and I don't want him anywhere near me.

I don't give a shit who's feelings are hurt. I'm not part of the "not my fault" generation, and excuse me if I'm prone to point fingers at people behaving poorly. If i make a mistake, I take accountability for it and I have ZERO patience for anyone who doesn't do the same.
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Old February 14th, 2010, 10:19   #94
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I think anonymity is sorta hurting the sport, how about starting a roll call before the game starts, hosts bring a copy of the signup list and check them off before they start...
We've been doing this for years @ the LZ in Ottawa - you're telling me this isn't standard practice? We have players check in, pay and chrony before games.

Players who are fucktards get spoken to, then the boot if they carry on being a problem. Now with a united group of field hosts in Ottawa this year, player bans would be enforced across the region.
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Old February 14th, 2010, 10:22   #95
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We've been doing this for years @ the LZ in Ottawa - you're telling me this isn't standard practice? We have players check in, pay and chrony before games.
not all host follow this practice, the only one i know of that still does it now it's either Brian M or Ponch when he host
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Old February 14th, 2010, 10:23   #96
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Originally Posted by pusangani View Post
I think anonymity is sorta hurting the sport, how about starting a roll call before the game starts, hosts bring a copy of the signup list and check them off before they start.

What you guys think?

Also good for people to get to know each other, not everyone has nametapes
Any group of people I've done "team building" with got in a circle and said their name and something about themselves right off the bat...gay? yes.
But it got you to know each other fast. I think I'll push Zeon to do this at games because whenever a problem comes up I don't know who the person is.
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Old February 14th, 2010, 10:29   #97
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Nooblord being that it's 5:30 in the morning here in B.C I'm being nice. There are a lot of senior player here including myself who has show a great deal of patient dealing with you, we have given you enough advice for you to be able to dig yourself out of your mess, whether you chosse to accept it it's up to you but be forwarned that if you manage to screw this up you will end up being a chairsofter for a very long time.
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Old February 14th, 2010, 10:29   #98
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Originally Posted by MadMorbius View Post
I have no objections labelling anyone. If the guy's a menace, he's a menace and I don't want him anywhere near me.

I don't give a shit who's feelings are hurt. I'm not part of the "not my fault" generation, and excuse me if I'm prone to point fingers at people behaving poorly. If i make a mistake, I take accountability for it and I have ZERO patience for anyone who doesn't do the same.
Granted. But this isn't a witch hunt, it's supposed to be constructive. Many positive things have been suggested, and TNL hasn't had a chance to fully respond yet. I understand some of the feelings in the community but that doesn't mean personal info etc. needs to be divulged. Especially if he hasn't given permission.
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Old February 14th, 2010, 10:31   #99
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I believe this discussion has run its course, I've gotten any advice that I could have, so I'd like to close this before it starts getting off topic again. thanks for the constructive advice, and I HOPE I get a chance to play with you again down the road.
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Old February 14th, 2010, 12:39   #100
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TNL, before you sign off, you should probably address MadMorbius and Mr Shiney's points regarding a) metnal illness and its place in airsoft b) scapegoating it
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Old February 14th, 2010, 12:55   #101
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Just to clarify my position so there is no misunderstanding about it.

Either you are a Numpty and need some time to gain Normal Safe and Responsible Handling Skills, along with a little maturity.

OR

A brief time out for some help and assistance from the appropriate resources. If you are in genuine need of help, there is no harm in asking for it.

I have no issue that you have been diagnosed with any Mental Health Disease/Disorder. I would have no issue taking the field with you, provided you are safe, responsible and not negatively impacting our sport. My only concern is the safety of yourself and other players at any event, regardless if I am the Host or not.

Ask any player I have played with, I always bring a rather larger and obvious first aid kit on the field, just in case, and make sure all know where it will be during the game.

If this is truly about safety, and allowing yourself to gain some prospective, then take the opportunity.

I would and will the first to offer you an opportunity to prove you are not the person that has been the topic of discussion in this thread. I would openly allow you to attend several games that I host, on three conditions.

1) You complete and without hestiation respect all conditions of any Ban or Temporary Participation Exclusion.

2) You agree to attend at least two events I am hosting in a Non Playing Capacity - such as an NPC that would not be allowed to carry or use any airsoft device. Also not as a game Admin Staff or any role of responsiblity.

3) You attend AT NO COST TO YOU, other than travel, Normal Safe and Responsible Handling Training.


And provided your Numpty Factor does down, and your Maturity Factor goes up, so be it. Your lesson should have been learned. After that it is up to you.

I had a member of ASC try out for 1 Canadian Selous Scouts - he proved to be a Numpty. I consulted my team and Hosts or Attendees off other events. They all indicated that he was a Numpty. I then offered him basically the same deal. He did turn it down, too bad, as he could have used the help. I approached him via PM's about his behaviour, and that I was willing to mentor him. He said in very clear terms of ignoring me - NO. To the point I will not allow him to attend any events I host.

Alex - please do not consider this thread as anything but a hand up, some support for you. Either you truly care about this community, this sport and its members or not. If you do care hopefully you are willing to do some self evaluation and allow us to help you.

If you do not care, you will disregard this thread and some of its concerns. I will not state that all comments made about your behaviour are correct. But I will say that it appears enough of us have concerns. What is more important is how you handle the addressing of these concerns.

I would rather you gain from this effort than not.
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Last edited by Mr.Shiney; February 14th, 2010 at 13:05..
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Old February 14th, 2010, 12:59   #102
Thenooblord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Shiney View Post
Just to clarify my position so there is no misunderstanding about it.

Either you are a Numpty and need some time to gain Normal Safe and Responsible Handling Skills, along with a little maturity.

OR

A brief time out for some help and assistance from the appropriate resources. If you are in genuine need of help, there is no harm in asking for it.

I have no issue that you have been diagnosed with any Mental Health Disease/Disorder. I would have no issue taking the field with you, provided you are safe, responsible and not negatively impacting our sport. My only concern is the safety of yourself and other players at any event, regardless if I am the Host or not.

Ask any player I have played with, I always bring a rather larger and obvious first aid kit on the field, just in case, and make sure all know where it will be during the game.

If this is truly about safety, and allowing yourself to gain some prospective, then take the opportunity.

I would and will the first to offer you an opportunity to prove you are not the person that has been the topic of discussion in this thread. I would openly allow you to attend several games that I host, on three conditions.

1) You complete and without hestiation respect all conditions of any Ban or Temporary Participation Exclusion.

2) You agree to attend at least two events I am hosting in a Non Playing Capacity - such as an NPC that would not be allowed to carry or use any airsoft device.

3) You attend AT NO COST TO YOU, other than travel Normal Safe and Responsible Handling Training.


And provided your Numpty Factor does down, and your Maturity Factor goes up, so be it. Your lesson should have been learned. After that it is up to you.
I would Agree to those conditions

Further, I would NOT like to discuss my mental diagnosis on these forums, I've done it before, and regret it,
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The apartment I am in right now costs $100 a month.
My average spending on food per day is less than $4.
My airsoft spending in the last month and a half has totaled over $1400.
They're called priorities. Get yourself some.
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Old February 14th, 2010, 13:11   #103
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I want to remain neutral when I say this, as I do not know either party and do not wish to invoke anything to either side. I am sure that both are doing what they can.

I was born with an MID. A mild intellectual disorder. I cant write, reading is satisfactaury according to schools, I learn slower than everyone else, I have trouble speaking about myself sometimes, and have trouble understanding some emotions that people display. (Such as confusion, anger, or displease.). The MID includes a "Fine Motor Skill" problem. Basically for those who do not know what that means, it means; my hands shake, writing is horrid, typing is somewhat easier, holding some items can be annoying due to dropping them, and yes even airsoft is somewhat annoying due to shakyness. (Don't give a camera to me , oh god.)

Yet with those problems, I do not let my disorder live my life. I am who I am, and wont and cant change for anyone. I was born this way, and its "normal" to me. I see others doing things much better than myself, but everyone is different. I understand that I have a problem, but I do not use it as an excuse to not do something. (Such as soldering. I can solder well due to lots of experience, even when I shake.) Live your life, and don't let a disability hinder you. You cannot cry over spilt milk, and even if you do, it wont get cleaned up like that.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is; Don't let anything such as a disorder or disability ruin your life. Live your life, as when you believe you have "nothing", you'll still have your life. Without life, there is nothing. Be happy that you are the way you are. Everyone has problems and issues, but its about not letting those interfer with your life. And especially not using those as excuses to do things.

Thanks.
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Old February 14th, 2010, 14:21   #104
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I would Agree to those conditions

Further, I would NOT like to discuss my mental diagnosis on these forums, I've done it before, and regret it,
I don't know about anyone else, but I'd sure as hell prefer to know what mental conditions you have if you are planning to be playing public games, especially if the condition is causing you to act out in ways that have earned you a ban. It seems more like a convienent excuse to say you have a problem but not to elaborate and expect us all to just take it at face value.
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Old February 14th, 2010, 14:41   #105
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I told myself I wouldn't get involved in this debacle because, well, since I don't game (just collect, for now), and I have nothing to add concerning someone's behaviour I've never met, and I'd hate to mistakenly feed a fire. However, I will urge people to stop bringing up TNL's mental illness/disorder for a number of reasons. First and foremost, it's none of our business, and it doesn't affect us here on the internet. So what if he posts immaturely (not my view, again, staying out of that part of this), just read through the Trash Disposal for 5 minutes and I guarantee you'll find much worse than what any AV'd member has said. All we can do is ask him to read his posts and think about them before posting them. Secondly, this should have only been brought up by TNL if and when he wanted to. This is a very sensitive and private issue, and we've just forced it out into the open, and not on his terms either. It takes a lot of courage to expose oneself like that, and he may not have wanted that. Also, we've pretty much forced TNL to either tell us what it is, or be even more outcast/judged than he is now. Either way now, he's gonna be labelled (and I'm not talking "jerk" or anything stupid like that). That's all I have to say about that. And let me again say that I have not met or seen TNL before, so I have nothing to say about what people allege he has said or done before.
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