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Relationship between range and fps

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Old November 18th, 2009, 10:23   #1
sarosh
 
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Relationship between range and fps

hey so i figured range comes from high fps and what not but apparently not? so i was just curious what gives a gun range?

thanks.
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Old November 18th, 2009, 10:39   #2
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A 400fps BB leaving an airsoft gun without any backspin will hit the ground pretty quickly (guestimate 45-55ft).

A 300fps BB leaving an airsoft gun with backspin can travel 2-3x further.

(I'm sure I'm going to mess up the physics of this and some university kid will wade in and lay a text book of equations on this...but this is what makes sense to me)
- the back spin creates lift and counter acts gravity from pulling the bb down.
- the "horizontal" push the bb gets from the spring/gas propells it forward
- the longer the "hang time" of the BB...the further it'll go...the faster it goes the less time it'll take to reach your target (if you've played a game you'll have noticed that it's not all that hard to "duck" a shot from a guy shooting at you from across the field)
- when the forward speed of the BB drops off to a given point...if there's too much backspin the BB will litterally climb like a fighter jet and take off "straight up"...if there's just the right amount the BB's flight path is straight out with a sharp drop off at the end when the speed has bled off.

The amount of hopup that you apply to a 400fps gun is not always the same as a 300fps gun. The amount of hopup you apply to a 0.20g BB is not the same as what you'd apply for a 0.30g BB.

So what gives it range? A fine tuned balance of backspin application, tweaked to suit the FPS of your rifle.

Factors such as the softness/"stickiness" of the rubber, surface of the BB and a whole plethora of other factors determine how consistently hopup is applied...but those factors ultimately affect your accuracy/grouping...not necessarily the absolute range of your rifle.

Hope that confuses things nicely!

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Old November 18th, 2009, 11:03   #3
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The backspin also reduces drag.

You know, a few years ago I bought a slingshot for the hell of it, and shot a few BBs (0.36g I think) and I was literally only getting about 60ft distance out of them by the time they hit the ground. I'd guess they were flying around 200fps (which would be around 300fps with a 0.20g BB).
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Old November 18th, 2009, 11:05   #4
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to add to the mix:

my stock ak @ 280fps with just a 229mm tightbore was shooting nearly as far as people with upgraded AR's and MP5's.

so yes, there's a fine point between fps and range but higher fps doesn't always equal better range
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Old November 18th, 2009, 11:18   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachster View Post
to add to the mix:

my stock ak @ 280fps with just a 229mm tightbore was shooting nearly as far as people with upgraded AR's and MP5's.

so yes, there's a fine point between fps and range but higher fps doesn't always equal better range
I've been running my M24 all year sitting at around 397fps, and all I've been using has been Bastard 0.36g BBs. Is easy to get consistant shots out past 200ft with it. Past four years though I was running around 500fps and never had the consistancy I have now, and the range wasn't really increased by the higher fps. Benefit of my running a 400fps rifle besides the above is that I can shoot guys a lot closer now (minimum is 60ft now, before I'd avoid shooting guys within 120ft), good for surgical shooting.
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Old November 18th, 2009, 12:15   #6
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fps + good hop up = good range

thats the formula
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Old November 18th, 2009, 12:36   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachster View Post
to add to the mix:

my stock ak @ 280fps with just a 229mm tightbore was shooting nearly as far as people with upgraded AR's and MP5's.

so yes, there's a fine point between fps and range but higher fps doesn't always equal better range
Is that a TM AK? Their hop-up is fantastic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skladfin
fps + good hop up = good range

thats the formula
Agree. Hop up is king though. My PDW is getting quite weak, the spring is ancient, and yet the range is incredible. The thing is shooting 245fps with .20g bbs right now. Accuracy is awesome as well, despite the 141mm barrel, the gun is more accurate than many armalites, and my own Famas. i.e. guns with barrels over 3X the length. It's all thanks to the TM hop-up.
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Old November 18th, 2009, 12:45   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m102404 View Post
So what gives it range? A fine tuned balance of backspin application, tweaked to suit the FPS of your rifle.
Quoted for truth. That right there is the key. You can have 500+ fps velocity, but if you don't have your hopup tuned right, your BB will either hit the ground at 50-74 feet, or turn skywards. It's all about finely tuning the hopup for the best performance with the BB weight you're using and the velocity of the gun.

My 2 longest range guns also happen to be my 2 lowest fps guns. My custom built C8 shoots about 325 with .2, and my Real Sword Type 56 shoots 310. They have better range than my 380 fps guns.
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Old November 18th, 2009, 12:59   #9
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i i had a ump a couple weeks ago shooting 310-320ish with .2 and you could hit shoot someone 200 feet easily i tested )
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Old November 18th, 2009, 13:04   #10
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Originally Posted by venture View Post
Is that a TM AK? Their hop-up is fantastic.
yes it is. TM AK Spetsnaz with no stock.
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Old November 18th, 2009, 19:50   #11
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ok kinda wat i was thinking just wasnt sure thank a lot everyone.
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Old November 18th, 2009, 19:55   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarosh View Post
ok kinda wat i was thinking just wasnt sure thank a lot everyone.
New players often think and ask as well, and ALWAYS want their new gun to be upgraded to 400fps just because they think that all the vet players run their guns at that velocity and will outrange them by a long shot. Fact is, heavier BBs are the key to range, not the velocity they are shot at. And for a BB with a backspin, lots of guns are are happiest (aka. shooting the farthest) sitting at around 360fps w/0.20g BBs, and the guys are running those guns with 0.28g BBs. I had my MP5A5 shooting 360fps and clearing 0.28g BBs past 200ft easily a few years back. My other MP5 with the longer tightbore in it and shooting close to 400fps was barely reaching 150ft.
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Old November 18th, 2009, 20:04   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachster View Post
yes it is. TM AK Spetsnaz with no stock.
Yep, TM hopup is awesome.
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Old November 18th, 2009, 20:08   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skladfin View Post
fps + good hop up = good range

thats the formula
Actually;

Heavy weight, high quality BB's + CONSISTENT Fps + FPS Matched hop-up rubber + Tight, consistent air seal = good range
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Old November 18th, 2009, 20:11   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDN_Stalker View Post
New players often think and ask as well, and ALWAYS want their new gun to be upgraded to 400fps just because they think that all the vet players run their guns at that velocity and will outrange them by a long shot. Fact is, heavier BBs are the key to range, not the velocity they are shot at. And for a BB with a backspin, lots of guns are are happiest (aka. shooting the farthest) sitting at around 360fps w/0.20g BBs, and the guys are running those guns with 0.28g BBs. I had my MP5A5 shooting 360fps and clearing 0.28g BBs past 200ft easily a few years back. My other MP5 with the longer tightbore in it and shooting close to 400fps was barely reaching 150ft.
QFT. My G36 is sitting around 360FPS with a tightbore, and my range and accuracy with 0.28g is excellent.
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