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Old November 5th, 2009, 23:36   #31
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and just to add lighter fluid to the fire.

Gaurenteed none of these guys are running real caps or low caps, Its hicap 400fps 1800rpm hose at the guy until he calls hit because there are so many BB's around him he does not know if they are hitting him or its the trees falling on him because buddy with the chain saw on the other side of the field won't stop firing at him even long enough to hear him say hit so you just walk off and than get shot 8 more times in the back because your seen as a threat when your pointing the other direction with your kill rag out and gun above your head so they need to make sure your dead... people.


TM ak47, with 30 round realcaps, running stock, and I still stomp alot of G&G see how many pieces of white plastic we can put on the target hi cap warrior nubs.
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Old November 5th, 2009, 23:53   #32
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I'm pretty puzzled by 007 perceived need to make CQB guns like the G36C and CQBR shoot 400fps. I'm suggesting it's Ken's choice due to the fact that I'm looking at SRC G36 Gen IIIs on US sites, and they are far from being all 400fps (even if they do include a spare M120 spring for you to DIYS).

Medium-to-long rifles are one thing, heck, I'll even play CQB with up to 370fps. But 400fps across the board long and short? That seems excessive and dangerous. Newbies are going to be caught between using overly hot guns and inexperienced DIYS (or payind someone else) downgrading right off the bat.

And frankly, even with a reinforced mechbox, I'd consider running 400fps on a version 2 a less than appealing idea. Especially with an aluminum piston head.

Unless Ken listed his fps wrong, of course.
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Old November 6th, 2009, 00:00   #33
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I'm pretty puzzled by 007 perceived need to make CQB guns like the G36C and CQBR shoot 400fps. I'm suggesting it's Ken's choice due to the fact that I'm looking at SRC G36 Gen IIIs on US sites, and they are far from being all 400fps (even if they do include a spare M120 spring for you to DIYS).

Medium-to-long rifles are one thing, heck, I'll even play CQB with up to 370fps. But 400fps across the board long and short? That seems excessive and dangerous. Newbies are going to be caught between using overly hot guns and inexperienced DIYS (or payind someone else) downgrading right off the bat.

And frankly, even with a reinforced mechbox, I'd consider running 400fps on a version 2 a less than appealing idea. Especially with an aluminum piston head.

Unless Ken listed his fps wrong, of course.
I agree, My theory is that high numbers attract un-informed players. I'm not trying to bash Ken. He has done more for this sport then I ever will, and I think hes a great guy, but when it all comes down to it, hes still running a business, and the player who doesn't know any better, wants the gun with the highest numbers.


Maybe I'm wrong, but thats my theory.
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Old November 6th, 2009, 00:01   #34
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I'm pretty puzzled by 007 perceived need to make CQB guns like the G36C and CQBR shoot 400fps. I'm suggesting it's Ken's choice due to the fact that I'm looking at SRC G36 Gen IIIs on US sites, and they are far from being all 400fps (even if they do include a spare M120 spring for you to DIYS).

Medium-to-long rifles are one thing, heck, I'll even play CQB with up to 370fps. But 400fps across the board long and short? That seems excessive and dangerous. Newbies are going to be caught between using overly hot guns and inexperienced DIYS (or payind someone else) downgrading right off the bat.

And frankly, even with a reinforced mechbox, I'd consider running 400fps on a version 2 a less than appealing idea. Especially with an aluminum piston head.

Unless Ken listed his fps wrong, of course.
I doubt Ken has listed it wrong.

He must have gone to a lot of trouble to make that SRC/G&G comparison chart, or at least enough trouble to verify the FPS.

However, I agree. I wouldn't want to be calling velocity checks all the time in CQB. Ken should be packaging the short guns with m100s and throw the m120s in the box.
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Old November 6th, 2009, 01:23   #35
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but isnt 400 fps good for something like the m4 ris where it would be used for longer range? plus, you could use heavier bbs for when ur playing outdoors with a lot of brush. i understand wat u guys r saying tho about the cqb guns. 400 does seem quite excessive for cqb.
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Old November 6th, 2009, 01:25   #36
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Originally Posted by connor.eckert View Post
but isnt 400 fps good for something like the m4 ris where it would be used for longer range? plus, you could use heavier bbs for when ur playing outdoors with a lot of brush. i understand wat u guys r saying tho about the cqb guns. 400 does seem quite excessive for cqb.
High FPS can be usefull in some situations, however, most veteren players seem to like their guns shooting about 370.

We don't really feel noobs should be playing with guns that hot.

Always remember, 400 FPS is a limit, not a goal

EDIT: I think the limit might be 450 in Calgary, not sure, but either way, my earlier point still stands.
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Old November 6th, 2009, 01:30   #37
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Originally Posted by theguy View Post
High FPS can be usefull in some situations, however, most veteren players seem to like their guns shooting about 370.

We don't really feel noobs should be playing with guns that hot.

Always remember, 400 FPS is a limit, not a goal

EDIT: I think the limit might be 450 in Calgary, not sure, but either way, my earlier point still stands.
JOC limit here in Calgary is 420 for AEG (full auto) and 500 for Single shot only(VSR,M24 those types.)
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Old November 6th, 2009, 01:32   #38
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JOC limit here in Calgary is 420 for AEG (full auto) and 500 for Single shot only(VSR,M24 those types.)
Thanks for clearing that up
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Old November 6th, 2009, 01:33   #39
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No worries. Few of us went out last week and had a couple of guys from BC come down using M16's that were at 490. Had to look it up then to make sure lol.
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Old November 6th, 2009, 01:43   #40
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I shoot my full auto AEGs at 400FPS. its the rule in this area.

I shoot my semi auto AEG at 440FPS, thats also the rule in this area.

Off topic: People who says "360~380 FPS is the sweet spot" is completely utter BS. And I will make this absolutely clear to everyone that there is NO such thing as a sweet spot. It won't increase your accuracy going to a lower FPS, this is just bullshit being fed from ill-informed tuners. Evidence proves there is no such thing, no matter what theory says otherwise.

I'm not encouraging noobs to shoot at 400FPS here, just calling out those poor mis-informed fellows. Please do keep using 360~380 FPS guns, it's easier on your mechbox.
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Old November 6th, 2009, 01:46   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by connor.eckert View Post
but isnt 400 fps good for something like the m4 ris where it would be used for longer range? plus, you could use heavier bbs for when ur playing outdoors with a lot of brush.
Actually 380FPS with a 0.20g BB is the magical number. Using either a 0.28 or a 0.30 yields excellent results. Don't ask me to explain it, all I know is that it just is. While Sklad may say believe its bullshit, I don't think it is, however it doesnt matter what I say because I'm just an "ill informed tuner".
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Old November 6th, 2009, 01:54   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skladfin View Post
I shoot my full auto AEGs at 400FPS. its the rule in this area.

I shoot my semi auto AEG at 440FPS, thats also the rule in this area.

Off topic: People who says "360~380 FPS is the sweet spot" is completely utter BS. And I will make this absolutely clear to everyone that there is NO such thing as a sweet spot. It won't increase your accuracy going to a lower FPS, this is just bullshit being fed from ill-informed tuners. Evidence proves there is no such thing, no matter what theory says otherwise.

I'm not encouraging noobs to shoot at 400FPS here, just calling out those poor mis-informed fellows. Please do keep using 360~380 FPS guns, it's easier on your mechbox.
Hey there... I don't know where you get your information from, but there is such a thing as a "sweet spot"

Although they vary from gun to gun... it all has to do with the hop-up rubber... EVERY hop-up rubber has a point that it can apply an optimal back-spin force, if the BB is going to fast, it doesn't take full effect... if the BB is going to slow, it doesn't take full effect.

For most rubbers (guarder clear, Systema, TM) the sweet spot is within the 360-380 FPS range...

But what would I know.. I'm just an ill-informed tuner

Edit:

I'm gonna add more to this;

A lot of people think that FPS is the be-all and end-all... This is not the case. With a properly tuned gun with tight airseal and a properly selected hop-up rubber, nub and unit and porting matching it's VERY possible to make a 200 FPS gun that will out preform a "greenly upgraded" 400 FPS gun. I've made a TM AK47 that fires at 230 FPS (I DOWNGRADED the spring) that will outrange most 400 FPS guns... I made this gun for the soul purpose of proving a point... And now the gun is THE BEST noob trainer gun around :P
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Old November 6th, 2009, 02:32   #43
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Originally Posted by Amos View Post
EVERY hop-up rubber has a point that it can apply an optimal back-spin force, if the BB is going to fast, it doesn't take full effect... if the BB is going to slow, it doesn't take full effect.

For most rubbers (guarder clear, Systema, TM) the sweet spot is within the 360-380 FPS range...
that part is very true. I agree with you on that one. But for most rubbers, "sweet spot" is above and beyond 400.

Here's a clear evidence:
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=76317

That gun is shooting at 520FPS. Grouping at 300feet is around 1.5~2 feet circle, easily hitting man sized target shot after shot. I could even take shots beyond 300feet. This was the same with TM rubber and Nineball rubber, AND firefly rubber. They all yielded about the same results after properly tuning everything else in the gun as well as washing the hop up rubber.

this 360~380FPS myth thing, somehow started out by some other member here on ASC and just spread like wildfire.

You can go to another major forum such as Arnies/Airsoft Retreat/Airsoft Mechanics/Fillipino Airsoft/etc/etc and try to impose this myth, but be prepared to get shot down on sight, no other forums other than ASC will ever believe this myth being true, and these are countries with more players, more gun docs, and more experience. They won't believe you simply because it's not true, and there is no such thing. In theory, it works, and it's right, but ONLY in theory. In real world application, especially with airsoft guns that do only about 2Joules maximum, just does not happen.

I feel like im going through a huge tide here, since everyone else thinks Im just pulling this out of my ass. But try saying this "sweet spot" myth in another major forum, you will be caught in the exact same situation im in right now.


Now back to topic, veered off too much:
SRC and KWA are essentially the same. Internally they are both excellent. Just choose based on externals.

Last edited by Skladfin; November 6th, 2009 at 02:34..
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Old November 6th, 2009, 03:12   #44
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Originally Posted by connor.eckert View Post
but isnt 400 fps good for something like the m4 ris where it would be used for longer range?
What's fps got to do with range? lol

Anyway, more importantly...
I beg to differ on the sweet spot above 400fps, I ran my VSR-10 at 400fps for the first season, just because of our close quarter field I didn't want to have to deal with minimum engagement ranges. When I upgraded to 470 I found the accuracy greatly decreased, and even at 440 it was sketchy. I put it back down to 400 and I was making 60 yard kills in heavy crosswinds and shooting people between blades of grass again.

Wasn't there another highly renowned sniper on this site that brought this EXACT argument up a few months ago? As I recall CDN_Stalker does the same

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDN_Stalker;
Heavy BBs are a MUST for a sniper rifle, go with 0.30g or 0.36g BBs, recommnd the Bastards. You don't NEED high fps in a bolt action rifle, I've been running my CA M24 all year at just under 400fps w/0.20g BBs, and even though my 0.36g are coming out at around 300fps, I've got great range and predictable consistancy, much better than when I had it running around 500fps the past four years.

Nutshell, it's the heavier BBs that'll set you apart from other airsoft guns for range. Is just a matter of learning how to use them.
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Old November 6th, 2009, 03:38   #45
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Does anyone know if the new SRC lineup at 007 are any good? I am interested in the full length M4 with RIS for $460. Are these guns better than a G&G or the new KWA's at Buyairsoft.ca or CapitalAirsoft?
To answer your original question, Yes- the new SRC's are worth the price. Our team picked up 3 this week and have another lined up for next Tuesday. We've already gamed them in both and outdoor and CQB and are impressed with the durability, accuracy, ROF, and realistic weight. As mentioned in another post, the Matte finish on the reciever is a 1st for the Canadian market and doesn't need painting... You'll be extrememely pleased with your purchase.

I don't believe retailers should be policing the fps limits of the various local fields. There's a much larger population with their own skirmishs on private property that have their own various fps limits and I'm sure the 400fps out of the box appeals to that market by letting the buyer tune the AEG accordingly.... -VK
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