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Noob question regarding effective range and a certain type of AEG

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Old October 17th, 2009, 01:18   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thenooblord View Post
my WE AWSS seems to shoot straighter with KSC .25s than with BBB .25s
BBB are by far the best you can get for any high preforming gun. Simple as that.

KSC are an ok brand but BBB will out preform them in every way I have seen. The most notable is consistancy. That is a huge part of what make them so good. No matter the bath you can reliabily know how they will preform in a gun.

Amos is right there. As far as Ive seen most people will tell you the same thing as me. The only other highly recommended BB's would be metal techs and madbulls.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 01:30   #17
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Originally Posted by Acid_Snake View Post
Except it's a bit outdated and Illusion doesn't have any plans to update that chart (it's missing companies like Madbull, Deep Fire, and Modify). I might be in to do it myself however it will have to wait when I have more time (and some money to buy the springs).
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Old October 17th, 2009, 09:53   #18
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Originally Posted by Jagdalex View Post
OK I got it now, I was not aware that it was an inner barrel replacement. I was thinking that you need to get a new barrel period. So I keep the outer barrel and swap the stock inner barrel for the TB one?

And someone talked about the spring what is the main difference between Mad Bull M100, M110 etc.... Seeing that they cost 15$ and the inner barrel 35$, mind as well getting everything, those are cheap upgrades, so it they make a difference I would be crazy not to buy them.
Go with modify springs, and get the M100 or if you wanna risk going over 400 get the m110 (though you can't play with over 400 at most games so i suggest the m100)

The M100 is referring to the strength of the spring. where as the number increases with it's stiffness M90 are used in properly upgraded sub 350 fps (cqb guns), M100-110 are in upgraded field guns (need upto a 130 to get 390 fps out of a completely stock gun but tightbores and good hopups help with fps ALLOT) everything higher than that is for sniper platforms but generally few fields allow AEGs to fire that high even if they are for sniping

People will disagree with this, but I'm a firm believer in "upgrade everything before touching the spring" whereas so many think all that is important is a stiff spring giving out high fps, but i'm right, they're wrong.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 11:03   #19
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just remember that FPS is not everything. I shoot a stock TM which is around 220fps on .25g BB's I have taken out many a people shooting stuff over 300.

Also one thing that will increase your accuracy is the weight of your BB. I think BBB makes a .28 which alot of people seem to be finding the perfect blend of distance, punching power, and accuracy.

Unlike paintball a bush will not provide you with cover in air soft. I used to play paintball and you could hide behind a bloody twig and watch paint break before it hit you. In air soft I have mowed down a bush to get to someone lol. *well not the entire bush but you get my point*

I have shot MT and MB BBs. I personaly see no difference in my Stock TM, prob cause its stock... so I shoot Madbull now as they are cheaper. Metal tech seems to be the most expensive out there.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 12:24   #20
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Another thing about the hop up, if you feel inclined, get an H nub http://www.airsoftparts.ca/store2/in...roducts_id=720
Such a small thing, but such a huge range boost from it.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 14:41   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dart View Post
just remember that FPS is not everything. I shoot a stock TM which is around 220fps on .25g BB's I have taken out many a people shooting stuff over 300.

Also one thing that will increase your accuracy is the weight of your BB. I think BBB makes a .28 which alot of people seem to be finding the perfect blend of distance, punching power, and accuracy.

Unlike paintball a bush will not provide you with cover in air soft. I used to play paintball and you could hide behind a bloody twig and watch paint break before it hit you. In air soft I have mowed down a bush to get to someone lol. *well not the entire bush but you get my point*

I have shot MT and MB BBs. I personaly see no difference in my Stock TM, prob cause its stock... so I shoot Madbull now as they are cheaper. Metal tech seems to be the most expensive out there.
Well TBH even in paintball, if you hide behind a bush and I am shooting sustained full auto at 30 balls per sec I can tell you that one ball will hit you. That is another thing that I am wondering, what is the usual common practice in Airsoft regarding fire power?

I am accustom in Milsim paintball of having a loader of 40 balls on my MP7 (to replicate the real capacity of an extended MP7 mag) and 120 balls (Loader included) on me at all times. We have a restriction on ammo (it is limited to 150 except for one support in each time that can have up to 500)

Because I have been watching only one Airsoft skirmish so far and people were all shooting full auto with high caps...it was ugly from a Milsim point of view. I hope that this is not common practice, because if it is... well it is far for from being Milsim. Even low caps have twice the ammount of ammo that you can have in a real mag. Is it because you don't really feel anything and you have to nail the opponent with at least 10-15 BB before they declare a hit, that people were going full auto like that?

Thanks again for your help and input guys!
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Old October 17th, 2009, 14:48   #22
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Originally Posted by Thenooblord View Post
You can get decent madbull hopup rubbers and barrels for about 50 dollars altogether, they are a cheap and effective upgrade
go to airsoftparts.ca
Over the 10 or so MadBull (BLUE RUBBER) hop up rubbers I stocked when I was doing the gun tech thing, I never found one that worked well, all had sealing issues with the nozzle or the barrel itself. I actually went as far as discouraging people from buying them from me, they were that bad.

Guarder Clear rubber is what I use myself, even inmy sniper rifle, but there are many other good rubber sets out there, KN and such. Really a matter of read, buy, try out, etc. My ZCA M24 has bore the brunt of my hop up testing, mostly KN Rh65 and Guarder clears which have given me what I want.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 15:10   #23
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Depending on the game there may be ammo restrictions, but Hi-caps are generally not the norm. Most players use mid-caps (90-130 bb's), but it all depends on the host. There are a some "true" milsim games out there where real-caps are required.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagdalex View Post
Well TBH even in paintball, if you hide behind a bush and I am shooting sustained full auto at 30 balls per sec I can tell you that one ball will hit you. That is another thing that I am wondering, what is the usual common practice in Airsoft regarding fire power?

I am accustom in Milsim paintball of having a loader of 40 balls on my MP7 (to replicate the real capacity of an extended MP7 mag) and 120 balls (Loader included) on me at all times. We have a restriction on ammo (it is limited to 150 except for one support in each time that can have up to 500)

Because I have been watching only one Airsoft skirmish so far and people were all shooting full auto with high caps...it was ugly from a Milsim point of view. I hope that this is not common practice, because if it is... well it is far for from being Milsim. Even low caps have twice the ammount of ammo that you can have in a real mag. Is it because you don't really feel anything and you have to nail the opponent with at least 10-15 BB before they declare a hit, that people were going full auto like that?

Thanks again for your help and input guys!
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Old October 17th, 2009, 15:19   #24
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Another thing you should know.

Usually with most mags the last 3-4 BB's will not feed. They're going to fall out just because the spring in the mag usually doesn't have enough power to push out those last few BB's into the gun. So in reality if you're using a real cap you're only going to get 26-27 BB's out of it.

Also some milsim games use a "point system" for mag loadouts where you're alloted 10 or so points and a real = 1 point, low = 2 points, mid = 4 points or something and high = 10 points. You're allowed to have any combination that gets you to 10 points whether it be 10 real-caps or 5 low caps or a combination like 2 mids and a low.

OP: This guy is an awesome cameraman and has A LOT of airsoft videos of larger games in the UK:

http://www.youtube.com/user/scoutthedoggie
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Old October 17th, 2009, 21:11   #25
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Summing things up, a standard ICS or G&G rifle from one of the Canadian retailers (007airsoft, mach1, velocity arms, etc. etc.) will be about 360 FPS stock, I'd say about 40-50 meters effective range depending on your play style.

FPS ratings are normally done with 0.20gram BBs. Many outdoor players will not use 0.2g bbs outdoors because they prefer heavier weights (0.25g - 0.30g) for greater brush penetration, more accuracy (more mass means less deviance from wind), etc. However heavier weights will reduce your FPS.

Like others have said, get a tightbore inner barrel. Actual barrel length is relatively meaningless at airsoft ranges until you get to really long barrels like in bullpups and sniper rifles.

A better hop-up will give your bbs more backspin and increase their range.

In Alberta, FPS limits go up to 420 FPS for full-auto, I don't know what it is for most Quebec games. An m120 spring will get you ~420 FPS. 420 FPS rifle with 0.28g bbs and a good hop-up can get out 200 feet / 60 meters effectively. Because airsoft ranges are so limited, most people recommend no more than 3-4x magnification for any optics you desire to you. The 'm' designation means meters per second so an m110 will do 110 MPS which is 360 FPS but this varies with every gun.

I have not found that much a variation in BB brand performance as long as they are polished and you stick to one of the good brands (Madbull, BB Bastards, Metal Tech, etc.). I've used others like TSD Tacticals and found them fine.

Regarding Hi-caps - I detest them. They rattle and need to be wound every now and then. Most players start with them because that's what comes with their guns. You'll see a few at skirmishes. Many games here will have ammo limits and serious milsims will restrict your ammo to realistic counts depending on your loadout. Airsoft rounds will not equate to real world rounds simply because they aren't as effective, a bb will hit a branch, the wind will blow it away, etc. Even airsoft low-caps are typically around 50-60 rounds whereas the genuine magazine will hold 30 rounds. If you really want to go for it, you can get real-caps that will have a realistic ammo count. These are more effective for indoor games where there are no branches and wind, etc. Don't worry about people not feeling their hits. This can happen with heavy gear and clothing. It's an honor game and usually you can hear it. If you are shooting 400+ FPS, airsoft can be quite painful.

Speaking of balls per second, with stock gun and a 9600mah NIMH battery, you'll probably get a dozen per second. There are other upgrades you can do to increase your rate of fire like upgraded gears, high torque motors, and most importantly the battery.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 21:19   #26
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your type of mag also depends on your Chest rig. A Plate carrier can afford to carry lowcaps, while something small like a Chicom wont do you good for a game with 3 Lowcaps.

Also, with such low amounts of ammo with a chicom type rig, your not much help to your team in terms of covering fire, ect.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 21:28   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagdalex View Post
I am accustom in Milsim paintball of having a loader of 40 balls on my MP7 (to replicate the real capacity of an extended MP7 mag) and 120 balls (Loader included) on me at all times. We have a restriction on ammo (it is limited to 150 except for one support in each time that can have up to 500)
O.o you guys realize that in the real world soldiers carry more ammo than that right? Like 300 and up rounds for riflemen + sometimes more ammo on 10 rnd clips for reloading empty mags.

In airsoft generally since unlike with a real bullet it's harder to get the bb to go exactly where you want so you end up shooting 2-4 bbs per every one bullet you'd fire with real guns.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 21:47   #28
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Generally from what I've observed most people carry between 300 and 800 rounds for a standard loadout.

Rounds per second isn't as critical in airsoft as it is in paintball, either. Whereas in paintball a lot of times success depends on filling the air with paint, you will quickly be detested using the same tactic in airsoft. Besides, the increased range and accuracy of AEG's over paintball markers generally makes it unnecessary.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 22:03   #29
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Ummm..... Kalnaren I think he's an airsofter in paintballers clothing. All he needs to do is shed the paintball stuff and he's good to go for airsoft.

1) From what I understand he plays milsim paintball (or at least woodsball) so he at least understands a lot of the the dynamics of airsoft in relation to milsim paintball.
2) He likes the idea of taking someone out with a few well placed shots rather than dumping BB's or paint into the air and hope to god they hit something
3) He's actually mature and willing to listen to us (how many "pro paintballers" have basically told us to F off when we explain to them the subtle differences betweein "paintball style" of playing and "airsoft style" of playing), albeit they were speedballers but it still stands.

Basically it seems like the kind of paintball converts that we want are milsim paintballers the rest can go dump paint at each other while wearing neon dayglo jerseys and trash talking each other (this isn't true for all paintballers however a majority seem to like to trash talk).
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Old October 17th, 2009, 22:08   #30
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Originally Posted by L473ncy View Post
Ummm..... Kalnaren I think he's an airsofter in paintballers clothing. All he needs to do is shed the paintball stuff and he's good to go for airsoft.

1) From what I understand he plays milsim paintball (or at least woodsball) so he at least understands a lot of the the dynamics of airsoft in relation to milsim paintball.
2) He likes the idea of taking someone out with a few well placed shots rather than dumping BB's or paint into the air and hope to god they hit something
3) He's actually mature and willing to listen to us (how many "pro paintballers" have basically told us to F off when we explain to them the subtle differences betweein "paintball style" of playing and "airsoft style" of playing), albeit they were speedballers but it still stands.

Basically it seems like the kind of paintball converts that we want are milsim paintballers the rest can go dump paint at each other while wearing neon dayglo jerseys and trash talking each other (this isn't true for all paintballers however a majority seem to like to trash talk).
Still a milsimmer with a marker that has a fire rate nearly 4 times real steal
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