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Old November 29th, 2009, 23:25   #76
Gaius_Baltar
 
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Originally Posted by kahaheha View Post
I accept with information:Some newbies come here and say they only want to invest $150 in a gun.. and that they only want to do it to “try out the sport” in case they don't like it, or a host of other excuses. Ok... I think at that point, there is a distinct misunderstanding of what airsoft is.
Indeed.

Can't really say you want to see what it's like having a pet, but only wanna spend the money to get a tomagatchi to see what it's like first.

A problem is that people mostly just don't want to spend that much money, and use the excuse "I don't wanna spend much in case I don't find it fun"
Then once anyone tells them the obvious; that cheap guns suck, more expensive guns -tend to be- better, and actually accurate.
But since they're being told this by people who have been in the sport longer than them; they pull the "oh, you're just elitist, now point me to the $20 metal AK47"

I spent quite a lot on my first gun recently, and never expected to spend under $250

Last edited by Gaius_Baltar; November 29th, 2009 at 23:27..
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Old November 30th, 2009, 14:17   #77
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Nothing wrong with buying a Kraken to start with
Buying other chinese guns is less recommended, but you can still do it
Just don't think anyone's going to want to upgrade it since "100% marui compatible" is just a stamp they put on the box to make it look pretty. I think of it like the "SEALS" logo on the SIG552 box lol

There are some cheaper vests that work, but your still going to spend around 100$, and theres no such thing as "a cheap pouch that works". Cheap pouches are crap, that's why they're cheap lol

Don't buy anything from Rothco

The three things you should have the highest budget for are:
1) your eye protection (60$ for ESS ICE glasses)
2) your airsoft gun (buy something mainstream, used or new)
3) your BOOTS (Don't spend less than 100$)
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i never understood why the oil refinery had a brothel... i never see them at the refineries i work at this is bull!
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Old November 30th, 2009, 14:44   #78
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I'll get flammed for saying this but...

Flamming someone for asking if a particular chinese brand is any good...

How would you feel if you emailed a tv car show about buying a Hyundai and have having your email read on TV and answered by " F*** off and go get a bmw or else your a fag!!"

The person probably knows it's crap, but flamming for asking what is the best crap is ridiculous.(particularly when a newb flames another newb Some poeple love airsoft, but don't want to invest 2k$ on stuff just to get started.

Some players swear only by Tokyo Marui, some by Systema, yet some of the best players on this forum are using painted crapsoft in cqb games. And they Pwn Marui owners regularly in games.

Watch out who you flame...You could get shot in the ass by their transparent springers.
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So you're saying we cannot engage in a hobby once we are older?

Children these days.
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Old November 30th, 2009, 14:55   #79
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I'll get flammed for saying this but...

Flamming someone for asking if a particular chinese brand is any good...

How would you feel if you emailed a tv car show about buying a Hyundai and have having your email read on TV and answered by " F*** off and go get a bmw or else your a fag!!"

The person probably knows it's crap, but flamming for asking what is the best crap is ridiculous.(particularly when a newb flames another newb Some poeple love airsoft, but don't want to invest 2k$ on stuff just to get started.

Some players swear only by Tokyo Marui, some by Systema, yet some of the best players on this forum are using painted crapsoft in cqb games. And they Pwn Marui owners regularly in games.

Watch out who you flame...You could get shot in the ass by their transparent springers.
Your analogy is pretty skewed..

It would be like going to foreign super-car class race and bringing a Dodge Caravan, sure your car could drive on the track, but you wont enjoy yourself to the full extent.
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Old November 30th, 2009, 19:28   #80
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Your analogy is pretty skewed..

It would be like going to foreign super-car class race and bringing a Dodge Caravan, sure your car could drive on the track, but you wont enjoy yourself to the full extent.
Who here plays airsoft professionally, I.E. paid to do it full time?...

A complete moron with a supercar could still get owned by Michael Schumacher in a Caravan. Maybe not everytime but probably most of the time.

People, stop thinking that it's all about the better replica, IMO It's the players attitude and judgement and not about who's got the priciest most pimped out gear.

Just look at our armed forces...We have some of the best soldiers in the world and look at the crappy ressources they are sometimes given to do their job and still they kick the americans ass in some wargames. Who's got the better gadgets?
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So you're saying we cannot engage in a hobby once we are older?

Children these days.
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Old November 30th, 2009, 23:27   #81
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Originally Posted by Deadpool View Post
I'll get flammed for saying this but...

Flamming someone for asking if a particular chinese brand is any good...

How would you feel if you emailed a tv car show about buying a Hyundai and have having your email read on TV and answered by " F*** off and go get a bmw or else your a fag!!"

The person probably knows it's crap, but flamming for asking what is the best crap is ridiculous.(particularly when a newb flames another newb Some poeple love airsoft, but don't want to invest 2k$ on stuff just to get started.

Some players swear only by Tokyo Marui, some by Systema, yet some of the best players on this forum are using painted crapsoft in cqb games. And they Pwn Marui owners regularly in games.

Watch out who you flame...You could get shot in the ass by their transparent springers.
No, you won't get flammed. A lot of people seem to think ASC is a flamefest. I guess they don't get the correlation between type and quality of posts, and the amount of flaming. People don't get flammed for having opiniions. They get flammed for being fucktards.

Now, to address what you said... obviously you've never watched an episode of Top Gear. Man.. I'd love to drop a piano on clearsoft guns.
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Old November 30th, 2009, 23:37   #82
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Flaming simple questions by others gets really bad around here about once a month (sound like anything else that happens once a month? )

It also becomes a sympathetic social issue (anti-flaming, can't we all just get along type stuff) about every fourth month...right after "the sky is falling" but before "retailers are ripping us off".

And if you think it's bad now...hold onto your hats as we head into winter season when chairsofting dominates.

Between Dec and March they should make this forum read only and have volunteers go through and purge all the crap that's dumped here, consolidate common questions, clean up my swearing, etc.... Then open it up again when games start being booked.
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Old November 30th, 2009, 23:44   #83
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Originally Posted by Deadpool View Post
I'll get flammed for saying this but...

Flamming someone for asking if a particular chinese brand is any good...

Its not so much the brand, but how ignorant some of the poeple are that ask the question. Keep in mind, the majority of the people that look into chinese brands are wanting to find the cheapest alternative they can buy. So they go to ask about these brands and hope to hear great answers.

But they don't.

Most of the time, we get some 15 year old kid signing up, briefly (If not at all) scan over the site, then creates a new thread in the Newbie section, they ask if "X" gun is good for "X" price. We tell them it isn't good, and give them a viable alternative for an answer. Which is either "Wait, save your money and get age verified. There are guns close to your pricerange that are of better reliability and quality" or a wall of links pointing towards very clearly written FAQ pages concerning whatever they may be asking about and what Age Verification means.

Since that answer 'isnt' what they want, and they think the age verification is stupid (Because, of course, they're a 'mature underaged individual', as we have heard hundreds upon hundreds of times). They get all whiny and start acting stupid.

The ASC flaming 'regulars' (You know who you are.) simply pounce and finish off the deal. And it seems people take blunt responses as flaming these days.


How would you feel if you emailed a tv car show about buying a Hyundai and have having your email read on TV and answered by " F*** off and go get a bmw or else your a fag!!"

Personally, I would totally just ignore that kind of reply until someone comes and gives me a more constructive answer on why I shouldn't get the cheap, chinese gun.
Again, that kind of response is given to people kind of halfjokingly here because the newbie has been known to not read/not research for himself. Again, the 'flamers' here at ASC just try and nail the answer into these peoples skulls. And most of the time, it doesn't.


The person probably knows it's crap, but flamming for asking what is the best crap is ridiculous.(particularly when a newb flames another newb Some poeple love airsoft, but don't want to invest 2k$ on stuff just to get started.

Every time I find these questions asking "What is best" There has 'always' been a very constructive, informative post in reply. The newbie simply doesn't read. And doesn't like the fact that this sport IS expensive. We're trying to do them a favor by giving them the most 'reasonably' priced alternative to getting into the sport. I mean, if they buy a shitty gun, they'll break it at some point and get all butthurt, and come back to us bitching. Take M700murder for example. He asked us if the walmart m4 springers were good, we said no, he went and baught it. Then he started a thread about how shitty it was and blah blah...

Some players swear only by Tokyo Marui, some by Systema, yet some of the best players on this forum are using painted crapsoft in cqb games. And they Pwn Marui owners regularly in games.

This is true, but as a lot of people always say. Its the person that makes the player, not the gun. We encourage getting brandname guns because they are known to be of more proper quality. And in the case of upgrading, the person wouldn't have to worry about the bad tolerances/cheap material that make up a lot of the lower quality, china brand airsoft guns. So, often in the end. the person would be spending more money upgrading/repairing his gun, than he would if he had just baught a stock, brand name airsoft gun/

However, I've found a lot of people just buy cheap guns to use as a project build. Internals completely replaced, properly tuned, etc.


Watch out who you flame...You could get shot in the ass by their transparent springers.
Just my two cents.

Last edited by Strelok; November 30th, 2009 at 23:51..
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Old December 1st, 2009, 04:07   #84
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My 2 cents on this (me being a noob who barely posts, but reads a lot) is that there is some elitism here, but it isnt what has been spouted yet. Certain people flame anyone who even thinks of getting a half-breed, even if its a decent one internally just because it isnt all black. Then they bang off some more rhetoric about getting AVed and buying a used black for only a little more. People make choices. And sometimes they have no choice, like for example people lkiving in Edmonton who cant get a single AV rep to even return a message because they havent played in a game because they dont have all black gear because they cant get reps to return their messages. Not that i'm hinting. Much.
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Old December 1st, 2009, 04:16   #85
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Although michael schumacher would still kickass with a cyma AK, he'd still do significantly better with a PTW
But he's a racecar driver, and racecar engines are designed to explode as they cross the finish line, just like chinese guns explode at the end of the scrim LOL
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i never understood why the oil refinery had a brothel... i never see them at the refineries i work at this is bull!
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Old December 1st, 2009, 05:45   #86
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Elitists prefer what's he most reliable not excatly he most expensive although there's the mentality of the more you spend the better which is still true in some sense.

With the newer generation of Chinese guns coming out on the market it would actually be more PRACTICAL to go that route for a base, especially if you plan on replacing a bulk of the stock parts. Someof the new stuff is equally of not better then CA but keep in mind that these Marui based design guns have had literally almost two decades to make improvements so it should be expected that the new stuff is better.

Personally I would rather buy a CYMA 041 or 049 for an MP5 then upgrade the literal shit out of it because externally it's well-built and the takedown design by G&G is so much better then the old school clamshell receiver design but if I had the money I would not hesitate on purchasing a Systema TW5 because it is just pure sex

Anywho it's a case by case basis depending on the type of gun you want.
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Old December 1st, 2009, 05:49   #87
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I really don't think the quality of the gear/gun is the real issue here. Everyone knows that you get what you pay for and that higher quality stuff is more expensive for a reason; it will perform better and last longer. It's not even debatable...it's the cold hard truth.

A big part of the whole "flaming" and "elitist" thing going on at ASC is really about communication. As mentioned several times and as I've witnessed a number of times myself, sometimes the OP of a thread doesn't get the answer they were hoping for and flips out. I agree, immature and closed to the opinions of others. However, the whole process of the OP posing the question, to it being answered, to the OP using the term "elitist"...how does it come to be? Let's look beyond the content of the question and answers. While the written (or typed) word doesn't carry any "tone", it still has a certain air associated with how a statement is worded. If the delivery of an answer to a question is simple, to the point, informative, helpful and friendly, it'll be much better received than if it were condescending, insulting and otherwise unfriendly or discouraging.

At this point, I imagine the seasoned veterans of the sport going "Every noob that comes around thinks they can be a 1337 sniper with some China clone spring gun with high fps. I'm tired of saying the same thing over and over." I can understand that and I agree that it gets tedious. Everyone has a point where their patience runs thin and emotions come into play and the need to be harsh comes in. I'm not saying that those giving good advice are at fault. As a matter of fact, I'm not saying the either party is at fault...not completely.

What I am saying is that a forum is where people share their opinions, experiences and knowledge on a common interest and where people come in search of information (in the form or opinions, experiences and knowledge). So the basic function (for lack of a better word) is giving out information and obtaining information. This goes back to what I said about communication. The process involves one party relaying information and the other party receiving, processing and understanding this information. In order for that to be successful, both parties need to play their part well. The party relaying info needs to do so in such a way that it can be received and understood by the other party, who, in turn, needs to do their best to receive and understand the info that they're given.

Statement of the obvious right? So how does this come into play other than the obvious? When the one answering the question (giving out info) is being helpful, informative and friendly, they are increasing the chances of the OP (the one to receive the info) actually receiving, understanding and accepting what's been said. If one, on the other hand, is being mean, unfriendly and insulting in answering the question, they are lowering the chances.

On the flip-side, when the OP is being close-minded and immature about an answer, they are not playing their part in communication...they are not receiving and understanding. Being on the receiving end of communication requires that you be open-minded and willing to learn. Bringing preconceptions that may be inaccurate is not a good way to learn, Remember the tea cup story? Long story short, a person goes to a master to learn under them. They are somewhat overconfident and even arrogant. They dislike what the master tells them to do and hate that the master won't "teach" them. When the confront the master, he gives the student a tea cup and begins pour tea into it. It fills up, but the master keeps pouring. When the student protests, the master says "Precisely, If the cup is already full, how can you fill it?"

Furthermore, if they ask a question that's already been answered many times, it's also a failure, on their part, to obtain information. Let's use this as an example: User comes and starts a thread and asks a question already answered in another thread. They didn't search, their fault. Some possible answers would be:
a) "Use the search function"
b) "Did you even try looking before you posted?"
c) "Read the FAQ's you idiot"
d) "[here is the answer to the question]. Next time, you can use the search function to see if you question has been answered before."
If you were the OP, which answer would be best received?

So really what I'm trying to say is, when someone gets "flamed" or called an "elitist" it all comes down to communication.

Sorry for my unorganized post...I'm not a very good writer, but those are just my thoughts, albeit messy.
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Old December 1st, 2009, 07:18   #88
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Bought a springer kokuosi? back in 1986 for a $120- delivered. Was supposed to shoot super accurate w/ brass shells and pop caps in the rear. Brass shells didn't show up w/ the rifle(m16)- a letter explained that the shells w/ the pop caps, caused fouling and jams, hence, the reason for no brass. About 30-40 bb's later, the rifle quit working. Hell, like it mattered anyways, where was I gonna buy more bb's anyways? Opened it up, found fibergleass wrap for a barrel to hop seal (come to think of it, it didn't have a hop). Guys, I would have loved to have the crap-soft that's out there now instead of the real P.O.S. that showed up at my house. I guess me and my friends were just gonna have to stick w/ getting shot in the butt w/ a weak bb gun. I know, we were complete idiots for using bb guns. I guess somebody's wondering what this rant's about. Doesn't really seem to have anything to do w/ the " To flame or not to flame", discussion-or does it. Everybody does something for the first time, and then gets to find out there might have been a better way. Remember the first time you wrecked your bike? Remember the first time you helped someone to learn to ride one?
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Old December 5th, 2009, 21:22   #89
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 21:33   #90
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Quality Equipment is important in Airsoft. More important is the player using it. I own many brands of guns and gear. My Favorite airsoft experiences Have not been who I shot and with what gun. Instead I have allways enjoyed the knowledge of owning people with lesser gear and experience.
My favorite kills have not been with a TM, CA, G&G or JG. It was with a rubber training knife. Cost $20.00. Regardless of a players gear, nothing speaks louder then the actions of said player. I had a new player sneak up on me in an outdoor game and put a round in my back with a cheap Canadian Tire pistol. He was so pumped, I dont think a $600 full black gun would have made that kill a better experience.

IMO. Both the terms Elitist and Noob can be equally frustrating. Who decides when someone is no longer a new player (noob). In the same way, when does a player become a Seasoned/knowleged player. I think both of these terms can be taken differently depending on how they are said and in what way. I was Called a Noob by a player that has about 4 years more experience than me. At the time I had been playing for 2 years, run a field, repair minor AEG problems and host games. This was a little hurtful to me. Had I not earned my way and payed dues like all other players. I think there will allways be a small percentage of people that look down on someone who has less experience then them in any subject. We all must remember ourselves when we started out in a new hobby. I am sure we all asked dumb questions at some point in our lives.

We dont need to post answers/opinions to questions if we dont want to. If we answer a new players question and they dont like the answer then just leave it at that. Calling People elitists is silly but could be avoided by ignoring the person and not trying to push our own opinions on people that dont want them.

I think we should remember that all we are giving new players is opinions. If we had a automobile forum and a new driver asked what car he should buy, All he would get is opinions. Some will say buy Chevy, Some Ford while others will say everything thats not BMW is Sh*t.

If a new player hasnt read the hundreds of threads about "which gun should I buy" I say let him buy the cheap crap and let them learn on thier own. We shouldnt have to give these opinions on whats good and bad. Mostly every gun has been covered in this forum, especially beginner guns. People not taking the time to research a gun on this site dont deserve my time typing them an opinion.
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