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Old October 6th, 2009, 21:16   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rai View Post
I read every word, and I agree. I learned from hockey the difference between a $120 dollar pair of skates and a $300 pair of skates. I also learned the difference between a $20 wood stick and a $80 composite stick.

Other than that I don't know what else to say.
I'm still a wood stick elitest in hockey. None of that composite BS.

What people like kalnaren push in terms of gear and guns here isn't elitism. Its smart advice on products that are actually worth the cash.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 21:26   #17
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While i do agree with most of this, i also agree with crunchmeister. A well tuned, or upgraded JG, CYMA, ect can perform just as good as a TM. While one may take more work to get to that point, it will still be similar.

Out of the box, theres no question; but since everyone here just loves to buy airsoft related things, they usually dont stay stock long anyways.

Just my .02
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Old October 6th, 2009, 21:38   #18
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Originally Posted by ujiro View Post
I'm still a wood stick elitest in hockey. None of that composite BS.

What people like kalnaren push in terms of gear and guns here isn't elitism. Its smart advice on products that are actually worth the cash.
Have you tried composite? The sticks are lighter you can handle the puck better and you can get under the puck much easier.


I understand the gear thing, I play hockey cheap skates work but when you are playing for two hours your feet will tell you the difference. I don't have a problem spending the money, I'll buy a vest but I am not going to spend $1000 for one, the amount of time that I am actually going to be playing it would be not worth it. As the OP mentioned about having light vests vs. a heavy vest. Maybe I like heavy vests. I play goalie in hockey, I wear 20 pounds of gear for 90 minutes no breaks, I'm just saying I do know there is cheap crap that breaks easy, but there is cheap crap that the only thing wrong with it is that it is too heavy. Or maybe a pouch is in the wrong place.

You said about using a wooden stick that may only cost $20 I have a composite stick that costs $80, I like it because it is light. I know that your wooden one is heavier. Does that make wood bad?


TL;DR,

There is cheap and there is expensive one may be made of stronger lighter materials but the other one may be made out of heavier materials that are just as strong. Only applies to gear. I don't know enough about airsoft guns to say anything.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 21:39   #19
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If you ask me, I feel this post should be included in the Terms and Conditions of this forum. If some punk decides to waltz in here and call people elitists because of his broken down no-name brand springers from Wal-Mart that it should be a warning/bannable offense. If a member gives proper advice to someone and is in turn called an elitist, show that punk attitude like that is not tolerated.
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This is the equivalent to knocking on deaths door and blowing his head off with a shotgun.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 21:43   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rai View Post
Have you tried composite? The sticks are lighter you can handle the puck better and you can get under the puck much easier.


I understand the gear thing, I play hockey cheap skates work but when you are playing for two hours your feet will tell you the difference. I don't have a problem spending the money, I'll buy a vest but I am not going to spend $1000 for one, the amount of time that I am actually going to be playing it would be not worth it. As the OP mentioned about having light vests vs. a heavy vest. Maybe I like heavy vests. I play goalie in hockey, I wear 20 pounds of gear for 90 minutes no breaks, I'm just saying I do know there is cheap crap that breaks easy, but there is cheap crap that the only thing wrong with it is that it is too heavy. Or maybe a pouch is in the wrong place.

You said about using a wooden stick that may only cost $20 I have a composite stick that costs $80, I like it because it is light. I know that your wooden one is heavier. Does that make wood bad?


TL;DR,

There is cheap and there is expensive one may be made of stronger lighter materials but the other one may be made out of heavier materials that are just as strong. Only applies to gear. I don't know enough about airsoft guns to say anything.
About the vest portion of your post, the point is that you can always find vests for $20, but will it be good? Odds say no. Cheap stitching, buttons that fall off, pouches that barely hold what their supposed to hold. No one says you need to spend top dollar, but you will surely find that the more comfortable, practical and ideal choices for gear will not be cheap. Keep one saying in mind: Buy cheap, buy twice.
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This is the equivalent to knocking on deaths door and blowing his head off with a shotgun.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 21:50   #21
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I agree with everything except the bit about using TM or CA to start with, but that's only because I prefer clones when it comes to AEG's, when it comes to GBB's however TM owns all

Good job Kal, glad this was stickied, compulsory reading for all the noobs right here!
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Old October 6th, 2009, 22:05   #22
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Originally Posted by Rai View Post
, I'll buy a vest but I am not going to spend $1000 for one, the amount of time that I am actually going to be playing it would be not worth it. As the OP mentioned about having light vests vs. a heavy vest. Maybe I like heavy vests.
You're right, you don't need to spend $1000 on a vest but I personally say the minimum should be around the $80 mark for a good quality used vest.

My vest may not be the real deal (it's actually a clone) and the craftsmanship may not be the best but at least it's better than a POS $20 vest and is actually great considering what I paid for it.

Like I said before, don't worry about what others say, a $80 clone vest is better than a $20 cheapo one. A $300 gun is significantly better than a $120 one (and should be the minimum of what you spend). $30 JT paintball goggles from CT are perfect, you don't need sealed ballistics and (you also can't use dentist safety glasses, apparently this happened once for real).

I guess what I'm trying to say you you is get out to a game and see what people are rocking. I have spent probably $1000+ on stuff already but I started off with $500 worth of stuff and borrowed for my first few games (goggles and BDU's) and eventually got all my own stuff. I think it's fine if you don't have everything you need at your first game and borrow a few inconsequential things like a few midcap's or paintball goggles (however don't just show up and expect people to lend you everything you need).
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Old October 6th, 2009, 22:12   #23
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^ correct

I'd much rather someone post in a game thread what it is they need to borrow than show up in fuckin jeans and a hoody with a TF16 and ASSUME that it's ok to come equipped like that, it shows alot of disrespect to the other players, worse yet when they want to give the normal players attitude as if they have a right to be there, wtf seriously?
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Old October 6th, 2009, 22:14   #24
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Originally Posted by Rai View Post
As the OP mentioned about having light vests vs. a heavy vest. Maybe I like heavy vests. I play goalie in hockey, I wear 20 pounds of gear for 90 minutes no breaks, I'm just saying I do know there is cheap crap that breaks easy, but there is cheap crap that the only thing wrong with it is that it is too heavy. Or maybe a pouch is in the wrong place.
I'm guessing you've never been to a milsim game. If you like heavy vests (and I can't imagine why), all the power to you.. and if you can get a vest for $80 that does everything you want.. hey I have no issue with that. However, 90 minutes is nothing. Go play a 2 day long game with a heavy vest, and then see how much you like it
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Old October 6th, 2009, 22:24   #25
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Originally Posted by kalnaren View Post
I'm guessing you've never been to a milsim game. If you like heavy vests (and I can't imagine why), all the power to you.. and if you can get a vest for $80 that does everything you want.. hey I have no issue with that. However, 90 minutes is nothing. Go play a 2 day long game with a heavy vest, and then see how much you like it
You clearly never played as a goalie, You learn to appreciate anything that is less bulky than what you are wearing. That is what my point was. And also you guessed right.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 22:29   #26
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Just thought I would point out that this thread defines ASC perfectly.

Airsoft gear, accusations of elitism, and hockey.

Glad to be Canadian.

You can all get back on topic now, sorry.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 22:46   #27
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Elitist Bastards

OHH so you think you're better than me eh... with your fancy all black FMU guns.. and your triple sewn and bartacked cordura chest rig.... well you know what fella... You're right!

Frankly I see it as my purpose to turn regular run of the mill airsoft Noobs into the most snobbish elitist bastards possible... Bring em in... knock those sad excuses of guns from their hands... and push them all down in mud puddles... then pick them up... swaddle them in the highest quality ripstop poplin BDUs .. clad them head to toe in Coyote Brown TAG chestrigs and drop leg rigs... and hand em a decent gun.. most of them once initiated to the joys of good guns and decent gear have zero trouble looking down their noses at all the "new kids" coming in
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Old October 6th, 2009, 22:47   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rai View Post
You clearly never played as a goalie, You learn to appreciate anything that is less bulky than what you are wearing. That is what my point was. And also you guessed right.
Not saying what you have to do, but I learned quite quickly at my first game that heavy=bad. I had zero issues wearing and walking around in everything I had on (vest + ballistic inserts, full 2L hydration pouch, Full 1L canteen, Dump pouch filled with stuff that in hind sight, I really didn't need. etc.) But once you start running, diving, then rolling jumping back onto your feet to run again.... basically... My back hated me by the end of the day. Light is always better in airsoft, Carry as little as possible to maximize your capabilities. You may be more capable than some wearing heavy gear but then imagine what you'd be like in good light gear.

And repeat what was said, $80 for a good used pantac vest (what i use now) is 1000x better than the crap-tastic vest I bought at an army surplus for $90 which resulted in extreme back pains for me.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 22:52   #29
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Kudos kalnaren! I've been hovering over the noob threads to see what I can learn about airsoft that I don't already know, and honestly, I can say that with the stuff you experienced players have, I don't know why anybody starting out wouldn't listen to you guys. My guess is that they are usually sub-18 kids wanting to try out shooting guns at people (or worse, raccoons or something). Which is a big problem because not only about the laws and potential arrests, but that these guys are adding a bad image to airsoft's already delicate situation. Yes it's been said before, but definitely I agree that this thread should be reinforced time and time again to the new players.
That's not to say all new players are bad, but they exist.

As for the gear stuff, another good point. I'm new myself to the game and I'm not even going to bother taking myself out to a game until I've got the cash to get a decent set of gear, not just the gun, which, by the way, probably appeals to the kids because its the only time they can run around with a 1:1 scale firearm. But of course again there are people out there who want to bring a Crapsoft gun to a game with jeans and hoodies. Which really defeats the purpose.

I suppose in any situation/sport one might be called an elitist, and sometimes the idea (but not the term) really is valid, I'd say one who decides to spend half their paycheck on gear is overdoing it a little, but if you've got the money to do so, by all means. But spending about a $1000 starting out on a decent gun, decent gear, decent eyewear and boots is NOT unreasonable at all.
But of course we can only guide them, in my mind if advice is given and not taken or not responded to positively, then let them make their own mistakes. We've tried.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 22:58   #30
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Originally Posted by AngelusNex View Post
Not saying what you have to do, but I learned quite quickly at my first game that heavy=bad. I had zero issues wearing and walking around in everything I had on (vest + ballistic inserts, full 2L hydration pouch, Full 1L canteen, Dump pouch filled with stuff that in hind sight, I really didn't need. etc.) But once you start running, diving, then rolling jumping back onto your feet to run again.... basically... My back hated me by the end of the day. Light is always better in airsoft, Carry as little as possible to maximize your capabilities. You may be more capable than some wearing heavy gear but then imagine what you'd be like in good light gear.

And repeat what was said, $80 for a good used pantac vest (what i use now) is 1000x better than the crap-tastic vest I bought at an army surplus for $90 which resulted in extreme back pains for me.
I never said heavy was better but for one game or until payday does it matter if you are just trying a game out?
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