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Old September 17th, 2009, 00:31   #46
CDN_Stalker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchell12 View Post
Yea lazer tag, no thanks. I simply meant that there is a balance before a bb is too heavy to compensate for realistically. I didn't say at WHAT weight as it's just a theoretical number that was because I didn't know but I do know that a balance does need to be achieved. Unless you've got some magical antigravity bb's not yet available to the public, I mean seeing who you are and all.
Lol, I guess I should keep out the fact I've gotten a few kills past 120ft using 0.43g Bbs in my G19? Is true, and yes, I aimed above their heads a foot or so in order to do it. Is all about technique, observation and adjustment.

Like I said, 0.36g is the heaviest anyone should go for using in a field legal gun. At Rawdon a couple years back, I was cleared to shoot my rifle set at 587fps, and used 0.36g BBs all day, I hit the square root of fuck all that day with my rifle, even shooting at guys 200ft away. The higher the velocity, the more unpredictable the BBs will fly. Last year I was testing and was able to get 0.30g BBs out to 300ft easy, and my rifle was shooting 340fps at that point the way I had it set up. Mind you, I was getting roughly 20ft groupings at that distance, but the rounds were still in the ballpark of where I was aiming and not flying off to the side after 150ft like I've seen before in lots of my tests at higher velocities.

BTW, thanks for the new quote. Testing in zero gravity would be fun actually.

Last edited by CDN_Stalker; September 17th, 2009 at 00:33..
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Old September 17th, 2009, 10:04   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDN_Stalker View Post
Lobbing is such a paintball term, and it's annoying to see it being viewed as "taboo" in airsoft. I use heavy BBs, and I do elevate as anyone should, it's all part of the package of marksmanship. If you view "lobbing", or as normal shooters (real steel, etc.) call it, adjusting for elevation, as bad form, then maybe your sport is best left for laser tag.
When I hunt and shoot my .308, when its over 75 yards, typically I am adjusting for elevation as well (depending on bullet weight) so the concept is familiar to those who sporting/hunting shooting. As such I think it has a legitimate place in airsoft. Shooting around corners using your hopup, while hysterically funny when hitting Claymore in the ass, is probably bad form.


Fox, you might find this useful, we just put it on our site (MSED - minimum safe engagement distance calculator). Its based on the AT Project that tends to get referenced every now and again, and from my research on the 'net, is probably the most useful, non partisan analysis of airsoft ballistics to date.

http://www.bbbastard.com/index.php?o...d=53&Itemid=57

Put in your BB weight and then put in your chronied FPS, and press the calculate button - all other information is calculated for you. Refer to this article, http://www.bbbastard.com/index.php?o...d=54&Itemid=59 for the scientific assumptions behind the calculator. Note that "MED" in the article as an acronym refers to "Maximum Engagement Distance" (effective range). Don't confuse that with MSED as used above.
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Last edited by Scarecrow; September 17th, 2009 at 10:11..
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Old September 17th, 2009, 10:19   #48
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Hehe, a MED 30ft for my set up based upon that calculator. I wouldn't even think about shooting a guy at that distance with my M24. Minimum for me would be 60ft, aiming at webbing.
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Old September 17th, 2009, 12:39   #49
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MED, based on the data of the AT project, are set to have 1 joule at impact. So, a BA rifle chronied at 450fps, should have a MED of about 40fts if using .30g BBs. That should give about 1 joule at impact, wich is equivalent of a 15fts shot with 0.25g in CQB using a 350fps gun, chronied with .20g.

That make sence. We tend to over estimate the amount of force our rifles output in relation to distance.

Don't get me wrong, 1 joule hurt, but it should not break the skin.

Scarcrow, goot thing you added the little calculator based on the AT Porject. I'm using the charts for the sniper clinics and for all around reference. Whenever I thread like this pop up, I fetch it.
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Old September 17th, 2009, 15:41   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDN_Stalker View Post
Hehe, a MED 30ft for my set up based upon that calculator. I wouldn't even think about shooting a guy at that distance with my M24. Minimum for me would be 60ft, aiming at webbing.
Yeah, and my sniper rules for my games reflect that decision as well.

What did you put in for a BB weight and chrony setting?
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Old September 17th, 2009, 15:56   #51
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Originally Posted by Scarecrow View Post
Yeah, and my sniper rules for my games reflect that decision as well.

What did you put in for a BB weight and chrony setting?
At first I put in 0.36g BBs at 300fps (because I know there is roughly a 100fps drop between that weight and 0.20g), came up as 1.51 Joules, then plugged in what info I KNOW, 0.20g at 397fps, I got 1.46 Joules.
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Old September 17th, 2009, 16:04   #52
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There are a lot of notes worth reading regard the output of numbers, particularly with sniper rifles. You should also have a read of this: http://www.bbbastard.com/ATP/06-c-01.htm Recommended Universal MEDs.

(this discussion is getting quite interesting).
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