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Old October 4th, 2009, 02:00   #46
kullwarrior
 
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Originally Posted by Ronan View Post
Never heard of a broken flute, its made of CNC airplane grade alu....
Their has been ONE report of a problematic flute valve that was changing fps after a dozen mags. Ra-tech changed his flute valve and that user didn't report of any other problem. I was able to fiddle with one + talk to ra-tech about it, and honestly i do see it self adjust after 2-3 games, so just re-adjust it and you are set for another 2-3 games. Theirs even a locktite made for problems like that.
Use the alu nozzle.
Use the alu nozzle.
Dude, how many rounds have you go through your CCC? I broke 3 out of 5k, there's people break more than that. Look at the part, no matter how strong it is, the joint makes it weak, I don't care how much you quinch that steel (hypathateically made of steel) its still gonna to get through the bending. As for Aluminium nozzle, Gen1 gives really slow FPS, like an AK. Gen2 is just out and problems have not surface, (Im receiving gen2 btw)

Man I love playing Devil's Advocate.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 02:15   #47
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Originally Posted by kullwarrior View Post
Dude, how many rounds have you go through your CCC? I broke 3 out of 5k, there's people break more than that. Look at the part, no matter how strong it is, the joint makes it weak, I don't care how much you quinch that steel (hypathateically made of steel) its still gonna to get through the bending. As for Aluminium nozzle, Gen1 gives really slow FPS, like an AK. Gen2 is just out and problems have not surface, (Im receiving gen2 btw)

Man I love playing Devil's Advocate.
So your saying all those positive reviews are fake/bs???

Iv shot 300 rounds through the regular nozzle with propane, still no issues. Ra-Tech plastic nozzle is better so it should last over 300 rounds. Their alu one has reports of thousands of rounds, with no issues.
I haven't bought the ra-tech bolt carrier, waiting for the chinese one. But i know a handfull of Canadian users, no issues with them (fitted on WA/AGM/G&P).

Unless yours personally failed over and over, i wouldn't give much thought about the handfull of negative reviews over the hundred+ positive reviews...

Keep us updated with the gen2 nozzle please
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Old October 4th, 2009, 02:51   #48
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Originally Posted by Ronan View Post
So your saying all those positive reviews are fake/bs???

Iv shot 300 rounds through the regular nozzle with propane, still no issues. Ra-Tech plastic nozzle is better so it should last over 300 rounds. Their alu one has reports of thousands of rounds, with no issues.
I haven't bought the ra-tech bolt carrier, waiting for the chinese one. But i know a handfull of Canadian users, no issues with them (fitted on WA/AGM/G&P).

Unless yours personally failed over and over, i wouldn't give much thought about the handfull of negative reviews over the hundred+ positive reviews...

Keep us updated with the gen2 nozzle please
Umm have you heard about the Gungas forum? just post and ask how many people broke their flute valve, and btw its 500 rounds, unless I misput it, people say expected life for a plastic one is 700 with lowest commonly at 500. Also the aluminium nozzle is not fault at the nozzle it self but the nozzle head, it is supplied with a plastic one, and those thing does snap, just like mine and about a dozen of others. No offense, I just can't stand people destroying innovation with clones, especially low quality goods. RA-Tech is even questioning on whether they should go forth with a GHK mod co2mag after recent news of alpha test clone of RA-Tech Burst Kit cloned by JDT with factories in China.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 03:23   #49
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Umm have you heard about the Gungas forum? just post and ask how many people broke their flute valve, and btw its 500 rounds, unless I misput it, people say expected life for a plastic one is 700 with lowest commonly at 500. Also the aluminium nozzle is not fault at the nozzle it self but the nozzle head, it is supplied with a plastic one, and those thing does snap, just like mine and about a dozen of others. No offense, I just can't stand people destroying innovation with clones, especially low quality goods. RA-Tech is even questioning on whether they should go forth with a GHK mod co2mag after recent news of alpha test clone of RA-Tech Burst Kit cloned by JDT with factories in China.
I'm actually grateful for clones, like that ra-tech won't monopolize their market with their $275USD bolt carrier.

Competition brings better prices.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 03:37   #50
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Competition brings better prices.
And leads to company refuse to make new stuff like how RA-Tech is currently questioning whether they will continue to do new products, also it would keep their prices high as their investment would lead to less customers.

Honestly, do you think its fair if you created a cure to cancer only I copied it and sell it for 1/10 of the price despite the fact it would often not work? Oh and ofcourse you patent that but I still copied it. Competition brings better product, Cloning brings better price.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 04:46   #51
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And leads to company refuse to make new stuff like how RA-Tech is currently questioning whether they will continue to do new products, also it would keep their prices high as their investment would lead to less customers.

Honestly, do you think its fair if you created a cure to cancer only I copied it and sell it for 1/10 of the price despite the fact it would often not work? Oh and ofcourse you patent that but I still copied it. Competition brings better product, Cloning brings better price.
Welcome to China.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 12:28   #52
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Ronan, your backing these crappy
AGM's like some used to back the
crappy WE pistols when they first
hit the scene. Same hit and miss
rep, same poor QC, etc etc..

Let time do the deciding. If people
spent more time using the GBBR's
rather than dumping in 1k worth of
parts we'd know all the pros & cons
by now. But as a casual reader, I
wouldn't touch one of these for any
price. Breaking the nozzle after 300—
500 rds? LOL that's a joke. If a pistol
or an AEG was that unreliable they'd
be out of business in a hurry.

I now return you to the regularly
scheduled debate.
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Last edited by safx; October 4th, 2009 at 12:40.. Reason: typos
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Old October 4th, 2009, 16:19   #53
ancorp
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Can anyone direct me to the possible options I would have to convert a AGM M4 to a full length 20" barreled one in a M16A4 (sans the 3 round burst) type configuration? Anyone besides WA and GP make a full length outer barrel for em?
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Old October 4th, 2009, 18:32   #54
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Originally Posted by ancorp View Post
Can anyone direct me to the possible options I would have to convert a AGM M4 to a full length 20" barreled one in a M16A4 (sans the 3 round burst) type configuration? Anyone besides WA and GP make a full length outer barrel for em?
Inokatsu does as well
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Old October 4th, 2009, 19:05   #55
ancorp
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Originally Posted by kullwarrior View Post
Inokatsu does as well
Well what I meant was someone cheaper, but you are correct.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 20:52   #56
ILLusion
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Originally Posted by kullwarrior View Post
Uhh... The flute valve breaks @ about 5 adjustments?
the NPAS will self reduce fps (not enough friction)
the plastic nozzle has a life of 500rounds
the plastic nozzle head found on NPAS set will break
  1. Get the original NPAS version (rather than the tool adjust version.)
  2. Fix it with plumber's tape or a dab of blue loctite
  3. The plastic nozzle can be swapped with an aluminum one. Replacement plastic ones are cheap, if you don't want to worry about splitting BBs. (My plastic nozzle has lasted me over 5,000 rounds now - 10 times more than what you're claiming.)
  4. Again, the plastic nozzle can be replaced. The new version is now replaceable. The previous version plastic bolt was integrated with the nozzle, which was a pain in the ass as it was not serviceable.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 21:18   #57
Ronan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by safx View Post
Ronan, your backing these crappy
AGM's like some used to back the
crappy WE pistols when they first
hit the scene. Same hit and miss
rep, same poor QC, etc etc..

Let time do the deciding. If people
spent more time using the GBBR's
rather than dumping in 1k worth of
parts we'd know all the pros & cons
by now. But as a casual reader, I
wouldn't touch one of these for any
price. Breaking the nozzle after 300—
500 rds? LOL that's a joke. If a pistol
or an AEG was that unreliable they'd
be out of business in a hurry.

I now return you to the regularly
scheduled debate.
I'm backing them up because i own them and actually use them, unlike 90% of the people spitting crap at something they only saw on google image or youtube or heard from a friend that knows someone that plays with someone.

You are another one of those people that throw crap. Your reason: Because they need to be upgraded. News flash, most AEG NEED to be upgraded or else they are crap.

I'll say it again, i have yet seen a upgraded AGM M4 GBB fail dramatically.

I bet if it said TM on the package, everyone would shut up pretty quickly.
And if it said PTW, everyone would say... well we already have threads full of that.

Get off your high horses people.
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Originally Posted by Mr.Shiney View Post
Yes it is hard to find an Instructor that teaches how to Finger, Suck, Squeeze and Blow all at the same time.

Last edited by Ronan; October 4th, 2009 at 21:21..
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Old October 4th, 2009, 21:22   #58
kullwarrior
 
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Originally Posted by Ronan View Post
I'll say it again, i have yet seen a upgraded AGM M4 GBB fail dramatically.
If your definition of failling drmactically excludes:
*Bolt Catch does not lock back every time at stock
*Magazine Included will leak within 200 rounds (and not getting better by it self)
*Nozzle and bolt carrier will break <500 rounds

Honestly, a good GBBR aint gonna be cheap, I can get a GBBR better than WOC for $1200 and a WOC sells at $1400. Toss in another $250 I can get a setup with RA-Tech NPAS BCG.
FYI if anyone needs to know the list Im working on a post for that.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 22:00   #59
Ronan
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Originally Posted by kullwarrior View Post
If your definition of failling drmactically excludes:
*Bolt Catch does not lock back every time at stock
*Magazine Included will leak within 200 rounds (and not getting better by it self)
*Nozzle and bolt carrier will break <500 rounds

Honestly, a good GBBR aint gonna be cheap, I can get a GBBR better than WOC for $1200 and a WOC sells at $1400. Toss in another $250 I can get a setup with RA-Tech NPAS BCG.
FYI if anyone needs to know the list Im working on a post for that.
Kull, a stock agm has issues, like a lot of stock aeg. I think we can all agree on that.

ALL the issues you mention are 100% fixable with upgrades. HECK my gen2 AGM does not have the bolt catch issue (and iv shot a couple hundred rounds already). The magazine are problematic, but theirs a fix for that (and a cheap one at that). Bolt carrier/nozzle is crappy, ra-tech fixed that, RWC has a fix for that, pro-arms has a fix for that, and the chinese npas will be another fix.

Honestly mate, all your issues have well known fix for them. If you want something 100% perfect out of the box, you have to make it yourself (which you are apparently). So... whats wrong?
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Originally Posted by Mr.Shiney View Post
Yes it is hard to find an Instructor that teaches how to Finger, Suck, Squeeze and Blow all at the same time.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 22:09   #60
cbcsteve
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I hate to thread jack here

But I like this paradox going on

Before Ronan use talk big about his Systema and its awesomeness but now he has opted for a GBB-R brand that some people hesistate about and is now the brand defender of that.

And then

Kullwarrior, haven't seen his post until this year and he's now talking big about GBB-R brands that are the best (Yes I know Magna and WA are wonderful so no need to go in detail about it)

I can predict 3 years or maybe 2, the arguments about what the best AEG brand will probably be minimal or cease to exist and then people will be talking all about what GBB-R brands and which one works out of the box. And then there will be Elitist GBB-R brand guys who feel the need to be the Defender of the brand.

Times are interesting for sure

Back on topic
Along the lines of this review I would say good job for consolidating all the information that would be needed for those who like to tinker and what parts may be needed.

Aside from the Brand Defender argument, I would say good review.
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