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Old August 28th, 2009, 12:08   #121
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Originally Posted by SDS_ShooterMcGavin View Post
I live about 150 yards from our Parliament building, and on 4/20/09, You couldn't even count how many people were blazing weed, and there was maybe ONE cop to make sure shit didn't get out of hand, there more concerned about real "Illegal Drugs".
Godwin's Law find!

Took long enough.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 12:09   #122
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So let me get this strait if you see someone doing or smoking something they shouldnt you wanna run and tell ASC like it was your mommy to dish out punishment ? sounds like a childish way of doing shit and just cause ASC is a canadian site doesnt give them right to say what anyone can or cant do. Thats the Game hosts job ASC in my opinion is just a way to communicate and retrieve knowledge its not in anyway law.

Not to mention im pretty sure the mods have way more important thing to do then police the tens of thousands of airsofters in canada.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 12:17   #123
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Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
so I say again.. This issue is not an issue
Yes of course, but this is ASC remember?

This is where people who haven't a clue
or any real investment in the issue come
to pretend they know what's better for
others really involved in the issues at hand.

I say this because I back Brian 100% He
runs a facility indoor and outdoor. What
right does this forum have to dictate how
he runs anything airsoft? Staff and members
alike can write their silly ideology about an
airsoft world/community they envision, but
what really matters is who's ass is on the
line. I believe it's the facility/field owners
and not this trade forum.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 12:27   #124
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Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
I object to any body that I did not consent to setting policy for my games on my property.. Its not the place of this forum to do so.

I am responsible so I make the rules.. No One else has the authority to do so.

you can't take an "official stand" if you have no mandate to enforce that stand.
You're still seeing it from the wrong end, Brian.

A no alcohol/drug policy on ASC would not be dictating your event rules, it would be dictating the type of games that can be advertised on ASC. The only recourse for violating the policy would take place only on ASC in the form of thread deletion (or infractions for intentional repeated offenders, based on the existing rule against posting improper content). If you want to run a game that permits alcohol/drug use before/during game, don't promote it publicly on ASC, anyone's still free to run such games privately.

At the end of the day, ASC is a convenience for hosts, not a deal breaker. All ASC would be doing is regulating its content, which is perfectly in line with its mandate.

Quote:
As ASC is a wholly owned entity that can ban anyone at any time arbitrarily there is no need for a set policy. Such banning actions can be done on a case by case basis as has always been the practice to now.
Arbitrary moderation action without a policy in place is unlikely to happen ("We don't have a policy in place, so let's not do anything about it no matter how bad it seems") and can lead to even more fighting ("You didn't care enough to have any policy against this in place, why punish me/us/etc now?").
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Old August 28th, 2009, 12:38   #125
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Originally Posted by safx View Post
This is where people who haven't a clue
or any real investment in the issue come
to pretend they know what's better for
others really involved in the issues at hand.
Everyone has an investment in proactively ensuring a "clean" appearance for airsoft. It is in all of our benefits and it sure has hell isn't your place to condemn people for it.

Quote:
I say this because I back Brian 100% He
runs a facility indoor and outdoor. What
right does this forum have to dictate how
he runs anything airsoft?
In case the point I was trying to make was missed, here it is again:

ASC can regulate its own content. It would be quite simple for ASC to put in place a no drug/alcohol use policy limited to advertising games on ASC. People can still run such games, they just won't be openly promoting it through ASC's event section.

Quote:
Staff and members
alike can write their silly ideology about an
airsoft world/community they envision, but
what really matters is who's ass is on the
line. I believe it's the facility/field owners
and not this trade forum.
There's nothing silly here. We all have a stake in keeping airsoft as presentable as possible.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 12:49   #126
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NO, you are presuming a mandate that is not supported by the membership of this board.

You are blowing smoke as well as you have no authority to set policy you don't own this forum. and the owners are silent.

How do you intend to enforce this policy?

Saint... you are adding to the already pervasive bad smell that is eminating from ASC these days.

Stand down.. this argument is dead



Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
You're still seeing it from the wrong end, Brian.

A no alcohol/drug policy on ASC would not be dictating your event rules, it would be dictating the type of games that can be advertised on ASC. The only recourse for violating the policy would take place only on ASC in the form of thread deletion (or infractions for intentional repeated offenders, based on the existing rule against posting improper content). If you want to run a game that permits alcohol/drug use before/during game, don't promote it publicly on ASC, anyone's still free to run such games privately.

At the end of the day, ASC is a convenience for hosts, not a deal breaker. All ASC would be doing is regulating its content, which is perfectly in line with its mandate.



Arbitrary moderation action without a policy in place is unlikely to happen ("We don't have a policy in place, so let's not do anything about it no matter how bad it seems") and can lead to even more fighting ("You didn't care enough to have any policy against this in place, why punish me/us/etc now?").
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Old August 28th, 2009, 12:53   #127
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Wow, when did "we" become the soccer moms? lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
You're still seeing it from the wrong end, Brian.

A no alcohol/drug policy on ASC would not be dictating your event rules, it would be dictating the type of games that can be advertised on ASC. The only recourse for violating the policy would take place only on ASC in the form of thread deletion (or infractions for intentional repeated offenders, based on the existing rule against posting improper content). If you want to run a game that permits alcohol/drug use before/during game, don't promote it publicly on ASC, anyone's still free to run such games privately.

Am I to understand that previous to this discussion there were games advertised on ASC that allowed Alcohol and Drug use Before & During? If not then your trying to fix a a perceived problem that doesn't exist.

Or maybe it's that I just miss them all because I need to get Stoner Verified?
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Old August 28th, 2009, 12:57   #128
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Not allowing a game to be advertised on ASC due to the fact some players might crack open a beer during break is a wee bit much.

How exactly could ASC enforce this advertisement ban?
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Last edited by shiftsup; August 28th, 2009 at 13:00..
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Old August 28th, 2009, 13:00   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hash Vapor View Post
Wow, when did "we" become the soccer moms? lol




Am I to understand that previous to this discussion there were games advertised on ASC that allowed Alcohol "and" Drug use Before, During and After? If not then your trying to fix a a perceived problem that doesn't exist.

Or maybe it's that I just miss them all because need to get Stoner Verified?
No , no such game postings existed or are likely to..

No one posts games where it says smoking dope is expected and its ok to bring beer along to drink during play..

which is again my point...

This issue is not an issue
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Old August 28th, 2009, 13:04   #130
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Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
NO, you are presuming a mandate that is not supported by the membership of this board.
At this point, I'm more confused by the constant back and forth between ASC being privately-owned/an unilateral entity versus requiring a mandate from its membership.

Quote:
and the owners are silent.
[snip]
Stand down.. this argument is dead
So it would seem. Given the trend on ASC, I wonder if this argument was even alive to begin with.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 13:08   #131
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Old August 28th, 2009, 13:17   #132
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Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
At this point, I'm more confused by the constant back and forth between ASC being privately-owned/an unilateral entity versus requiring a mandate from its membership.



So it would seem. Given the trend on ASC, I wonder if this argument was even alive to begin with.

It requires a mandate.. because without membership.. its not much of a forum.. but it can take unilateral action .. if it wants.. with the risk of causing estrangement from that membership. It's a balance

There never was an argument.

Kurgen was looking to whip up a witch hunt..to take out the local dope smoking airsofters that threatened the very fabric of society in his end of the country. he got no traction with the AV crew.. so he thought he would try his luck in the public eye. to no avail

Then the argument got all muddled... and pointless as usual.... as people who put about a nonosecond of though into it chimed in.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 13:34   #133
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Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
Kurgen was looking to whip up a witch hunt..to take out the local dope smoking airsofters that threatened the very fabric of society in his end of the country. he got no traction with the AV crew.. so he thought he would try his luck in the public eye. to no avail
That's not fair to Kurgan, I think his complaint was perfectly legitimate: people doping up during game and offering pot to minors. Before people say there is no place for minors in airsoft, let me remind people that there's no law against minors playing and it's actually the norm outside of Canada.

In addition, the AV forum was also divided on the subject, we didn't simply turn our backs to him. He only took it public because someone in the AV section goaded him into doing so.

Kurgan didn't start a witchhunt, but the idea that he did something wrong because he bought the issue up is a witchhunt.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 13:36   #134
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Quote:
In case the point I was trying to make was missed, here it is again:

ASC can regulate its own content. It would be quite simple for ASC to put in place a no drug/alcohol use policy limited to advertising games on ASC. People can still run such games, they just won't be openly promoting it through ASC's event section.
This is what I don't get, No body post game where substance abuse is promoted.

What you'd want would be to have a anti-drug statement in the game tread?

If so every body is gonna copy paste the "No drug allowed" sentence and it won't change much thing on the field.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 13:37   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
I object to any body that I did not consent to setting policy for my games on my property.. Its not the place of this forum to do so.

I am responsible so I make the rules.. No One else has the authority to do so.

you can't take an "official stand" if you have no mandate to enforce that stand.

Until such time as ASC will take on the responsibility by providing me with general liability insurance to indemnify me against claims against me as a game host / feild owner that I willingly accept, along with the restrictions incumbant upon such a contract it has NO RIGHT to set policy for anything that does not happen here.

The only authority ASC has is to restrict the use of its forum. If it is known that a particular game host allows rampant illegal activity and dangerous games with intoxicated players then it is well within its right to ban that user from access to the forums for the purpose of organizing such games.

As ASC is a wholly owned entity that can ban anyone at any time arbitrarily there is no need for a set policy. Such banning actions can be done on a case by case basis as has always been the practice to now.

so I say again.. This issue is not an issue
It's fine that your official stance encourages or allows people to drink or do drugs before and during your hosted events. Sounds a bit dangerous.. but yes, it is your choice to allow this behavior.

It still is an issue, just because you don't agree with it, and a few dope users agree with you, doesn't end the debate about standing against it.

Do you honestly think it's better for an avenue such as ASC to turn a blind eye and say.... OK.. we've talked about it and we're ok with doing nothing? The only people who agree with you are the dope users or people who drink at games. It seems the only reason you against it, is that you will be directly in violation of a policy that may or may not come to fruition.

The consensus is for an official stand against consumption of drugs before and during a game. You guys posting your against it 10 times doesn't sway the opinion.
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