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Old August 23rd, 2009, 09:34   #1
NavyShooter
 
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"Certified"???

Gents,

I've seen a couple of folks around with taglines that read along the lines of:

"BA Sniper Certified"

"CQB Certified"

Etc.

Can I ask what that means? I figure Bolt Action, and Close Quarter Battle, but what sort of certification is this, what are the standards, and who manages the certification?

NS
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 10:27   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyShooter View Post
Gents,

I've seen a couple of folks around with taglines that read along the lines of:

"BA Sniper Certified"

"CQB Certified"

Etc.

Can I ask what that means? I figure Bolt Action, and Close Quarter Battle, but what sort of certification is this, what are the standards, and who manages the certification?

NS
In the province of Ontario, Sha Do spearheads and runs what is known as the "Sniper Clinic". This Clinic is designed to promote safety and help mentor/instruct players that wish to run at a higher fps (field/host dependent of course). This is traditionally completed with a bolt action airsoft rifle. Although other rifles can be used.

There are different levels of this certification, and depending where you are from.. there should typically be a clinic running in your province.

To quote Sha Do on the standard field limits with Certification:

"The standard field limit for BAs is 450 FPS with 0.20s.
A level 2 certified BA operator is allowed 500 FPS max with 0.20s. *
A level 3 certified BA operator is allowed 550 FPS max with 0.20s. *"


From my understanding, this was the last Sniper Clinic hosted in Ontario:
More information will be found there.

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=82363&highlight=Bolt+action+certi fied




Any other "certification" doesn't really mean anything, except for a CQB Laser cert, that means you can pew pew pew, till you're blue in the face at about... 5 feet.

Hope that helps!

Last edited by c3sk; August 23rd, 2009 at 10:41..
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 11:29   #3
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The biggest thing with the certification of higher velocities for sniper rifles is mating up proven ability (even under stress or adrenaline) to properly judge distances, mainly to the point of safe minimum engagement distances in proportion to the higher powered guns. Examples, at 450fps I wouldn't shoot anyone within 100ft, 500fps 130ft, 550fps 150ft, etc. And, all year I've been running what I've found is a sweet spot for my M24 (in it's current configuration), a hair under 400fps, gives me consistant accuracy and allows me to use the rifle in built up area games where AEGs are capped at 350fps..............my running 400fps bolt action also gives me the ability to anyone at any distance, within reason that is. I'd shoot someone at 80ft no problem, but I'd focus on shooting a piece of gear to prevent injury from my 0.36g BBs.

Hope that clears up stuff better for you. I don't have any certifications as tags on my account, I really don't see the point of it for myself since everyone knows of me anyways. Just unsure how many know I've been given certified instructor status as well as Level 3 certification. Meh............ hehehe
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 21:21   #4
NavyShooter
 
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Ok,

So it's more of a safety course than a "how to be a sniper" course.

Gotcha.

As a genuine question (as I am not aware) what sort of engagement range could be reasonably expected for a skilled marksman with a good quality rifle in an airsoft game?

I shoot out to 900 meters with my "real steel" precision rifle, so I get a feeling it's going to be something much shorter than that...

NS
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 22:25   #5
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Well when using a DMR rifle such as an M14 or something of the like, expect decent accuracy at 50-70 feet. Above that is all on the player to maintain the accuracy of the gun based on proper ammo, proper hopup configuration and so on. Longest kill Ive ever gotten with my M14 was roughly 120 feet. I had alot of luck on my side with that one though.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 23:07   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyShooter View Post
As a genuine question (as I am not aware) what sort of engagement range could be reasonably expected for a skilled marksman with a good quality rifle in an airsoft game?

I shoot out to 900 meters with my "real steel" precision rifle, so I get a feeling it's going to be something much shorter than that...

NS
There have been lots of cases out west where guys have successfully engaged targets out to 90 yards (270 feet). Velocity, ammo, hop-up are the keys there.

I've gotten kills at 70-80 yards at sub-420 fps, or at 550 fps out to 110 yards, give or take.

With an M700 at 650+++ fps, perhaps even a bit more than that.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 23:44   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyShooter View Post
Ok,

So it's more of a safety course than a "how to be a sniper" course.

Gotcha.

As a genuine question (as I am not aware) what sort of engagement range could be reasonably expected for a skilled marksman with a good quality rifle in an airsoft game?

I shoot out to 900 meters with my "real steel" precision rifle, so I get a feeling it's going to be something much shorter than that...

NS
The courses are full blown 'airsoft sniper' everything: stalking, ghillie fabrication and use, useful distance estimation tips, sometimes advanced ballistics info, etc. But the certification itself points out the person can judge safe distances based upon the power of thier gun, is more a trust of understanding really, if someone takes the time and puts in the effort to attend (or understands it to the point of proving use and teaching others), then it's understood they can be trusted to use a higher power airsoft rifle above the basic '450fps w/.20g BBs' thing. I'm still baffled by the tag I've seen "CQB BA Certified", all it means to me is the proven ability to use a sniper rifle in close up built up areas, such as I do at times.

And distances to be able to use an upgraded sniper rifle, ranges from 300ft inwards. Past 120-140ft, Mother Nature takes over and decides if you get the hit or not, regardless of the velocity of the rifle. Of course, I've gotten 120ft kills with my KSC Glock 19 using 0.43g BBs, so an upgraded sniper rifle isn't the only thing that can get longer than normal ranged shots. I think the best shots 'vev been able to take for distance have been out to 250ft away, annd at one point I was tweaking my freshly downgraded rifle (was shooting about 340fps, downgraded it for a CQB type game in a built up area), I was floating 0.30g BBs out to about 300ft, but mind you they were about 20ft groups once they got there.

Last edited by CDN_Stalker; August 23rd, 2009 at 23:48..
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Old August 24th, 2009, 20:53   #8
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WOW, you guys are handeling this very well. I should go into retirement....
Anyways, there are "certified instructors" through out Ontario, one in Quebec, one in BC, and we are working on a couple in the west. The program has been in existance for about 7 years or so, and mainly focuses on safety and are run based on demand. In Central Ontario I usually end up running two to three per year. Fox has run one in Quebec in the last year, and the same is true for Lupo in BC. Not everyone want to be a sniper once they realize how much is really committed to filling the role. It's not just point and shoot....

SHA DO
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Old August 24th, 2009, 21:06   #9
NavyShooter
 
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Gents,

I appreciate all of your replies, it's answered my question completely.

This is my "reach out" stick....I fire local "precision rifle" matches and placed 5th or 6th at the CFSC two years ago with my issue C-3A1.



NS
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Old August 24th, 2009, 21:25   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyShooter View Post
Gents,

I appreciate all of your replies, it's answered my question completely.

This is my "reach out" stick....I fire local "precision rifle" matches and placed 5th or 6th at the CFSC two years ago with my issue C-3A1.

NS
Really nice Kit. Saw her in the other thread.
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Old August 25th, 2009, 00:12   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sha Do View Post
WOW, you guys are handeling this very well. I should go into retirement....
Anyways, there are "certified instructors" through out Ontario, one in Quebec, one in BC, and we are working on a couple in the west. The program has been in existance for about 7 years or so, and mainly focuses on safety and are run based on demand. In Central Ontario I usually end up running two to three per year. Fox has run one in Quebec in the last year, and the same is true for Lupo in BC. Not everyone want to be a sniper once they realize how much is really committed to filling the role. It's not just point and shoot....

SHA DO
Ya, well, very select few are trusted with the "torch", so.................... hehe, what would you expect from some of us? I saw it as a valid question, I'm still unsure of the "BA CQB Certified" thing though. I'm suspecting it's as I outlined earlier, which takes a very specific type of player to be trusted with a bolt action at close ranges.

And, for the heck of saying, airsoft sniper stuff isn't like real world sniper use (unless the sniper chooses to do so), I actually play it like I do with FPS video games, I go looking for targets of opportunity (I know Sniper_Chic does as well), and often act as a regular airsofter with the exception of having a 14lb sniper rifle on my back 95% of the game and use it as a 'special opportunity weapon', and surprisingly it works great and more often than in previous years for me. Incidentally, for the sake of interest, last game I played was at Mirabel Paintball, half the game was open area with old CF trucks, mud, etc and we were defending a raised up area with trenchs and bunkers, the second half was pure urban warfare, all buildings and little brush to hide. That game I had my MP5 with me the entire time (ok, the trench game I left it at the bunker), I literally only used my M24 rifle and my Mk23 pistol, I only shot my MP5 at the chrony and not again until end of the game to clear it. I was pretty stunned doing so well in an urban built up area with buildings, using only a BA rifle and pistol. Tactics and placement allowed me to net a decent dozen kills, including some really precise shots out to 150ft.
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