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New players - Navigating ASC - Surviving Your First Game and other essentials


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Old August 12th, 2009, 10:46   #1
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto
New players - Navigating ASC - Surviving Your First Game and other essentials

Been meaning to post this for a bit...

This is a summary note targeted at newcomers to ASC. Don't know how useful it'll be to everyone, but hopefully it'll spare a few headaches for some. I'm sure that most of this stuff has been posted here and there before...but let's face it...there's a lot of stuff here and it's not always easy to find it.

I'll repost this (or bump it) every week. I'll update the first posts to reflect more info as I find it. To the regular guys...if you find a good it up formatted and I'll link it in where it makes the most sense. I.e.
Yuxi's Gear Information Collection Yuxi's Gear Information Collection

Here goes...

So you've found out about airsoft from some buddies or from the Internet and are all jazzed up about it. But lost as to where to start since when you walk into a sporting goods store or a toy store they just look at you funny when you ask for an assault rifle.... Or you've seen a couple of Canadian websites (retailers) and are thoroughly confused by all the terms/models/makes/options...and don't want to piss your money away.

What to do?

1. Read and research.
Read the FAQ's and some of the stickied posts on this forum (I'll add others as I find them)
Saint's Welcome Saint's Welcome

If you've already narrowed in on a specific for it. Either at the top of the screen, or with the other "Search this thread" drop down when you're in a thread already (i.e. you're in the Gun Doc thread and want to find all references to "M4A1"...or "MP5"...or "ICS"...or "Well L96"...etc.) Chances are EXTREMELY high that your question has already been asked...and answered.

2. Getting ready to play
Before you even buy anything...look at the games going on in your area.
Games and Events Games and Events
. They're sorted by province. Find a game close to you and get out to it. Post in the thread that you're a first timer, that you want to see how things are run, and that you want to be shown how to safely work an airsoft gun. It's likely that you won't be charged the game fee if you're just watching. If you post up like that, it's likely that guys will offer you a rental/loaner...because it's more fun to play than to watch. ***EDIT*** Remember to ask to get Age Verified at the same's likely that there'll be an AV'ing Rep there and you can kill two birds with one stone.***

If you're level headed, polite and coherent (i.e. not some drooling spaz)'ll find that A LOT of players are more than happy to show you what's what and help out. You've got to ask though...that's the first step. (note: some games start early...and guys are offering a large Timmy's in exchange for a couple of answers go a long way! Sha Do will pretty much do anything for a coffee...)

Keep your eyes and ears open to the expected conduct and safety guidelines. EVERYONE expects you to hear it, understand it...ask questions if you have any...and then, most importantly, you're expected to abide by them without fail. Take it seriously...everyone else expects you to.

After you see what local guys are running, how they're geared up, hear first hand what's good and what's a waste of money...then you're on your way to picking up your own stuff.

3. Getting Ready to Buy
If you're
Age Verified Age Verified
, you gain access to other parts of this forum and to the classifieds (person to person private sales/buys). It's worth doing.

Now that you have a good idea of what you want (if you don't...go back to step 2 and then step 1), you'll be even more confused as to all the options out there. What's a version 2? How's it different from a version 3? Are mini-batts ok? What weight BB's should I get?

Again...go back to step 1 and search. All those questions have been answered.

So...let's say that you've got an idea that you'd like an M4A1. There's over a half dozen manufacturers of that model...there's several dozen variations of that model...what to pick, how to pick, WTF?!?! This is a tough question, and there's no solid also changes as time goes on and new models come out.

But here's some guidelines that will help you choose (and they're applicable to any make/model):
Q. What feels good in my hands? Does it fit my body well?
- some rifles are really freaking long, making it tough to get through brush. If you go to one knee and plant your slung rifle right into the mud...that's not a good thing. You need to feel comfortable with it...or else you'll hate it after stuggling with it for 4-8hours straight at a game (which should be fun...not a pain).

Q. Is it a common item that I can get parts for? Upgrades? Help from others?
- Most often, this won't be an issue. But if you pick a Maruzen MP5K GBB or a Piper Precision might be on your own... (again...go to step 1 and will become apparant which ones are common)

Q. Do I have a favourite?
- some guys have always wanted a specific weapon. That's part of the fun of can get ones that look just like something that otherwise you'd never get. If you do...start reseaching the different manufacturers and looking for reviews of that specific make/model.

Q. What else am I going to need?
- for an AEG (automatic electric gun)'ll need:
* battery/charger
* BBs
* some kind of case/bag to transport it (carrying it open in public is a bad, bad idea and just not acceptable)
* loader for your mags
* mags

- for a GBB'll need:
* gas and adaptor
* BBs
* case/bag to transport it
* silicone oil (see for the oil and adaptors...and a very scientific explanation of why propane is Green gas)
* mags

- for yourself, you'll need (at a minimum):
* goggles
* some kind of way of carrying your mags/stuff
* sling
* some way to carry water/snacks
* good boots
* BDU's (because you're going to look like a freak all dressed up in public...and you'll be all dirty after the game if you're fighting hard)
**** there's a billion other things that you could get...but that will come in time.

4. FINALLY, Ready To Buy!!!!
Well...sort of. First, do yourself a favour and do a reality check on how much is this all going to cost. Can you afford it? Because it really sucks for you and for everyone else if you're only half assed prepared. That doesn't mean that you have to be gung-ho geared up to the tits...but you have to be ready to support yourself and be ready to conduct yourself properly (that's again why step 2 is so important). Guys that show up without a charged battery...or can't play by the rules of a specific game because they don't have enough mags...are just an unwanted burden on the game host and are an annoyance to everyone else who has put in the time/effort to be ready for the game.

Here's a sample tally for the minimum amount that you'll need:
* rifle - $300-900 (yes...they can be that expensive or more)
* mags - $60
* BBs - $20
* loader - $20
* charger - $150
* battery - $35
* rig to carry stuff - $60-200
* boots - $50-200
* BDUs - $60
* Goggles $100 (I'm still using the first pair of JT Flex 7's that I bought years ago...can't remember how much they cost)
* hydration pack/insert - $20

Add in games fees and transportation to the games later...but for now you're looking at around $1000 to start out. A lot of that is reusable and will last a long time...but if you can't afford it, save it bit by bit to spread out the pain.

5. Ok...I get it, search first....but now I'm really ready to buy
Well, sorry...can't say much else but to get Age Verified (step 3). You'll find stuff in the classifieds and links to retailers there. But here are some general tips:
- Buyer beware. When doing a person to person deal, try your utmost to deal with someone local. Whenever possible, try it out first before you buy it, buy it face to face, cash in hand. Look up that person's Trader Rating...cross check who is providing those references...look at some of the Seller's other posts (with some exceptions...if they write like a prick they're probably going to be the same to deal with). You can search for stuff from a specific person by putting in their ASC name in the top right of the Search window
- Somewhat the same with your homework. Several retailers start out great and then self-destruct. You don't want to jump onto a sinking ship. Step 1....SEARCH, it's really that important.
- Looking for used stuff in the classifieds can pay off huge. The item may not be listed for much less than buying it brand new...but often the item has a slew of upgrades, extra parts, mags, batteries and stuff added in. The savings in shipping, running around getting all those parts and time really start to add up...being able to scoop up a "package" all at once is sometimes way more attractive than saving $50.
- Sometimes you can put together the history of a certain item...if you find a bunch of posts from the seller asking for help on why his thing isn't working...and then you find a for sale post of that might want to give some careful thought as to how good a deal it really is.

* DON'T try to order airsoft guns from stores outside of Canada. It is extremely likely that Canada Customs will seize it and you'll be out of pocket.
* DON'T try to bring it across the boarder yourself...taken apart, declared as toys or whatever. It is extremely likely that Canada Customs will catch you. The best that happens is that everything of everyone with you is searched for hours and you'll be marked on the boarder list to be searched every time forever.....(and that's the best thing....). Smuggling Prohibited Devices does not sound good on your record when applying for jobs...
* Wondering what you CAN order and what you CAN'T?
- CAN'T - rifle/pistol receivers, grenade launchers, magazines with fake bullets in them
- CAN - pretty much everything else....but Customs is goofy and some officers interpret things differently. Basically if they think it's a gun they'll take it and let the appeal process sort it out (takes multiple never). I know a guy who ordered a scope that got held for inspection...for over a year...go figure.

So there it've figured out what's what. You've figured out what's expected of you and how you're going to prepare for it. You've figured out what to buy and where to buy it. Now you've just got to decide if you're going to put your boots on and hit the fields this weekend!

Have others out when you can,


Last edited by m102404; April 14th, 2010 at 08:54..
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Old August 12th, 2009, 10:47   #2
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Location: Toronto
Notes On Specific Items

Batteries/Charger - As simple as it gets. Big batteries last all day, but not every rifle can fit one in. Buy a good charger. A smart charger may seem expensive at first...but it is soooo worth it. Get one that does different types of batteries, that is adjustable for charging voltage and other'll never want for another ever again.

Kos-Mos' Great Battery Write Up Kos-Mos' Great Battery Write Up

Goggles - The most cost efficient way to go at first is to buy a full face mask Paintball goggle. Buy one with thermal lenses to help reduce fogging. Buy one where the face mask part is flexible and as tight to your face (low profile)...that will help with aiming. Some fields don't require paintball goggles...but lots do. If the local fields around you allow T800's or other things...then you might have other options (that's why you did step 2 before buying anything).

BBs - 0.20g are fine for indoors. Outdoors go for 0.25g, 0.28g or 0.30g. The heavier BBs will work much better at long range so you can actually hit what you're aiming at.
BBbastard BBbastard
is great and available all over Canada. Scarecrow, the guy that runs it, is a stand up solid guy. is a great place...Jugglez is a solid guy and 100% reliable to deal with. There's a lot of fuzzy stuff on the Internet and ASC...but the above is 100% locked in guaranteed good info.

Gear - to hold your mags and stuff, you'll need something with pouches/pockets. There's a billion different types of rigs out there...from drop legs to small/light rigs to full out replica armour. Again...go to step 1 and search. I'll link here when I find links...there's some great ones already written.

NOTE: Cheap stuff
- there are some really cheap options out there...but don't cheap out on Goggles, Batteries, Charger, loader.

Last edited by m102404; August 12th, 2009 at 11:48..
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Old August 12th, 2009, 10:47   #3
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Great...they made this thread a no-one will ever read it...

Weapon Specific Notes:

One of the best pieces written up on this forum. The first post has been an awesome help and captures so much info in one place. Read it...reread it...reread it again and then reap the benefits.
Skruface's Why Do I Need to Upgrade (or Not) Skruface's Why Do I Need to Upgrade (or Not)

Accuracy:- consistency of the shot to shot velocity (typically measured around here in Feet Per Second FPS) is the basis for accuracy. If you're getting 5-10+ fps difference between will not matter how good your BBs are nor how long nor how tight bored your inner barrel is.
- longer barrels will tend to result in tighter groups of shots at distance than shorter barrels...all things being equal. * there's some debate over this...but as with all things airsoft it's probably, partially true...sometimes...LOL
- a good BB weight (0.25g+), a nice inner barrel and a good hopup rubber do A LOT for accuracy and they're a good bang for your buck.

- games are typically set with a MAXimum FPS limit. It is a hard do not need to be shooting at that specific velocity. In fact, it's very hard to get your rifle shooting right on the maximum and you stand a good chance of being over. It would suck to show up at a game and not be allowed to play because you have a hot gun. It would suck even more to get called out by someone you shot for a chrony test...only then to find out that you're running a hot gun. Prepare to pack your bags and go...and not be welcomed back.
- if your rifle is shooting well and you're shooting 20-35fps below the field limit and you're wondering if it's worth upgrading for that little bit more's NOT. 20-35fps is pretty much meaningless at most games for most people. 50fps is probably not even worth sweating.
- when you start to get out to games and start making'll realize that you're not out there to hurt them. Competition is still fierce, aggression is high...but you all want to kick back and enjoy a cold one afterwards, not nurse a facefull of bleeding welts.
- you'll drop FPS by going to heavier BBs. But you'll pick up effective range over lighter/faster BBs. That's the ultimate range that you can confidently hit something that you're aiming at. Switch from 0.20g BBs to 0.25g/0.28g BBs and it's like magic...your groups shrink, your shots don't fly sideways with the slightest breeze, it's soooo sweet. For indoors...0.20's are just fine. The range and conditions rarely warrant anything heavier (and heavier BBs hurt more close up!).

Rate of Fire (ROF):
- Batteries do nothing that affect your FPS. But they greatly affect your ROF, how many shots your rifle can shoot per minute/second. Pair a big battery with a strong motor and your rifle will fire like it's been hit by a bolt of lighting. This may sound great, but in reality it greatly reduces the lifespan of the parts in the mechbox and puts a lot of wear and tear on everything else. Having a rifle that shoots 1400RPM (rounds per minute) might be a blast...right up until it shoots 0RPM because it's broken. In actual play a really high rate of fire is less than desireable since it empties your mag in a heartbeat and puts an awful lot of rounds onto whatever you do hit (1-3 bbs hitting a guy can hurt plenty....20 BBs hitting almost all at once hurts A LOT and is just plain dangerous). In short, unless your rifle is so sluggish that you could have run up and tagged the person by hand before it shoots....don't sweat the ROF, concentrate on tactics instead.

Game Play Notes:

Taking/Giving a Shot:
- Airsoft is all about the honour system. You need to be sensitive to taking a hit. At range, the impact from a shot isn't very hard, nor is it very loud. A weak shot feels like someone has just flicked your jacket...and weak shots still count. A shot to your hat still counts. Depending on the game, a shot to your rifle may count as "gun down"...and you have to go to a different weapon. In the hustle and bustle and heat of the need to keep track of all that. Everyone else on the field is expecting you to...actually, they expect you to get it perfect. But no one is perfect. Everyone makes conscious of making them, call yourself out and try better. If you're in an exposed position and shots are raining down all around you where there's no possible way that you'd yourself out (you might not be feeling the shots or your opponents may be shooting nicely and not hammering your head just because that's what's open to thankful, take the hit and go respawn).

I've probably made every mistake in the book...but I always try to be better next time and not repeat mistakes. That's all anyone can ask for. Don't sweat taking a hit. Usually respawn is just minutes away and you're back in the's part of the game.

When you're shooting at someone and they're not calling out...always give them the benefit of the doubt, and move up and shoot them more! Your shots might be impacting really softly (I've had some shots feel like someone dropped a bb on my sleeve from a foot above). Your shots might be falling short. Airsoft gun ranges are such that quite often you can just move 10' (that's only 3 paces) back and suddenly be out of the shooters range. Plenty of times I've been hunkered down with guys and we're watching a rain of shots falling 10-15ft right in front of us. A bit sureal...but it happens.

Move up and shoot them again...that works. Wait 'till they get in closer before opening up. Know what your effective range is (it's shorter than the absolute range). Aim for non-geared areas (arms, legs, bum...NOT the crotch or head).

Now this happens too...and it's unfortunate. You and your buddies get a guy lined up and open fire. He dances, twitches, you can see the bbs bouncing off of him...everyone is 100% certain that he's been hit. Yet, he doesn't react like he's been hit (shuts up, lie down, raise your arms, put your kill rag on, etc...). He turns to shoot, looks around for who shot him, starts to go on his merry way, runs off giggling into the bush. What to do? You and your buddies are pissed.
1. Stop shooting, call Parlay or Cease Fire. Approach the person and tell them that everyone's just seen him shrug off the hits and that it's not acceptable. If the person reacts positively...let it go. If not, go to step two.
2. Get the game host there and relay what's happened. It's up to the host to make a judgement call and resolve the issue. Whatever the host says...goes. That's it...after that let it go. The person in the wrong may be ejected from the game, banned from future events, etc....

Note: If it appears that you're the one freaking out about every potential shot not being a hit....the problem might not be the other person and be prepared to face the consequences if you're interrupting the game continuously.

Last edited by m102404; April 25th, 2011 at 13:16..
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Old August 14th, 2009, 09:07   #4
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As I see common questions come up, I'll post up more info here:

<b>How do I take care of my Gas Blow Back (GBB) pistol?  What do I need to do?</b> How do I take care of my Gas Blow Back (GBB) pistol? What do I need to do?

If you use them regularly (I probably use mine at least once every 3 days or so) doesn't really matter. So I'll leave them fully filled, partially filled, almost empty or empty. They've been solid for years now...but that's with regular use.

If you're going to put them away for a couple of weeks between games...fill them up completely and fire off 3-5 "dry" shots (where there's no BBs in the mag) in a safe direction (i.e. behave as if a BB is going to shoot out).

If you're oiling your mags/gas, that will do two important things:
1. It will ensure that there isn't a BB stuck in the chamber that you'll forget about
2. It will blow a bit of oil up into the workings of the pistol, lubing the seals/o-rings in the slide (they dry out/harden too).

After "taking the edge" off of the gas pressure in the them somewhere safe. Not around anything flammable, not in direct sunlight (it'll raise gas pressure), not where anyone else is going to mess with them (or where you're going to loose them and be running around in a panic getting ready for the next game).

Never put BBs into the mag until you're ready to shoot. If you need to stop for a while before you've emptied the mag and can't shoot anymore....simply rack the slide manually a bunch of times until it's'll knock all the BBs out. Then dry fire 3-5 times (to clear the chamber)...and put it away somewhere safe.

****The following was written for another thread as this question gets asked over and over and over***
There's a couple of things that need lubrication in a GBB.
1. Bearing surfaces and contact parts that move
2. Seals

1. Bearing surfaces and contact parts that move
- rails, pivots, disconnects, sears, springs, plungers...all need to have a bit of lubrication so that they move/travel/reset nicely.
- guys have used MSO2 (molybendum-di-sulphide) grease, silicone grease, gear grease (usually contains graphite or teflon in a grease suspension), dry graphite (messy), white lithium grease, superlube (aka viperlube), silicone oil (various weights)

For bearing & moving contact surfaces I'd think that you'd want something "light" that will provide lubricity and "stick" to the surfaces you apply it to. In a GBB, grease won't really get flung around...but you'd want to avoid clumps/build up. In general, you'd want to avoid substances that will trap dust/dirt (and really fine sand)...which will turn it into a fine grinding paste.

Alot of bearing & moving contact GBB parts are metal. But not very good metal. They're made from either monkey metal (aka white metal, pot metal), aluminum or steel (and most times pretty low grade steel). Sometimes these parts are "chromed" to put a harder/smoother surface on them. Regardless, they need lubrication. Not a lot, just enough to do the job and no more.

2. Seals
There are a number of seals in a GBB system, typically:
- magazine bottom seal
- magazine top seal
- magazine fill valve seal
- magazine main valve (aka knocker valve)
- blow back unit piston head seal with nozzle
- nozzle tip with hopup rubber
- hopup rubber with inner barrel
- float valve with interior of nozzle
All of those seals need to seal repeatedly and consistently for your GBB to work. Most (I think the only common exception is the float valve) have an o-ring/rubber seal.

So...any lubricant that will destroy rubber (i.e. petroleum based) isn't going to work. Many of these seals are not easily lubricant needs to penetrate and "seep" into these areas. Similar to grease trapping really don't want a lubricant that will "attract" dust/dirt that will wear at the seal. Drop your GBB mag on the ground...pick it up and use it in your GBB and you've just blow any dust/dirt that was on it right through the whole system (not the end of the world...everyone's done it and nobody keeps their stuff in hermetically sealed NASA food ziplocks ).

So...what to use....?
- lightweight (1wt to <15wt) 100% silicone oil...that's a good easy one that can be mixed with propane. Used this way, the oil will penetrate throughout the mag and get blown up through the rest of the GBB. With every shot, escaping "oily" gas will typically deposit oil over the entire firing assembly and usually it'll get to the rails and other parts as well after a bit. It "evaporates" after a that's good in that it's not picking up dust endlessly.
- lightweight (non-petroleum based) grease on pivot/springs/bearing surfaces...a little goes a long way.

- keep your mags with a bit of "oily" gas in them...don't keep them full, anywhere from Full-5 shots to just a shot or two left (don't know how to measure that) is fine. If you shoot a lot (i.e. every day or several times a week) you probably won't have any issues with storing them empty.
- learn how to fully disassemble your pistol (not just field strip). It may seem daunting because there's a billion little spring and screws in them...but after a season you'll be amazed at the crud build up in them.
- field strip clean your pistol after it get's a good workout....that might be after a single game for you....or after a month of casual plinking in the basement. It is NOT like a real piston where it's filthy after each use.
- Store it safely. No BBs in the mag, pistol locked up in a locked case and stored out of sight. Keep a pair of shooting glasses (they're dirt cheap and easy to find) in your case if possible...then you'll never forget to put them on when you're shooting.

Again, just my $0.02...use your common sense. No matter how bad you screw it up, someone's already done worse.

Best of luck,


Last edited by m102404; September 21st, 2009 at 09:36..
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Old August 17th, 2009, 10:42   #5
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Prep'ing For Your 1st Game

Getting Ready For Your First Game:

So you've got:
- boots
- BDU's
- AEG + Battery + BBs
- Goggles what?

Since you've already gone to at least one local game waaaay back in Step 2 of the first already have a good idea of how the game goes, but since is your first time as an Ex-Newb you want to hit the ground running!

So here's a quick list of things to consider in prep for the big game day:
* Water - even if there's going to be a place to buy drinks at the field (and there aren't for quite a few fields)'ll want to carry at least some water on you and keep hydrated throughout. Remember...drink before you're thirsty.
* Food - same goes for food/snaks. A burnt burger or questionable hotdog might not be the best thing to choke down when you're running around. Good snacks are a godsend and are easy to eat when there's a lull in the action (i.e. power/granola bars, oranges/bananas, candy bar, jerky, and other stuff that's good for you )
* Allergy pills - a lot of outdoor games the outdoors. If you suffer from allergies...consider taking an antihistime before the game starts (so it has time to kick in). Crawling through a field full of grass/weeds/flowers/scrub is pretty much guaranteed to turn you into a snotting mess. Take an hankerchief as well....
* Radio - a radio is really handy at a lot of games. BUT turn VOX (voice activated comms)'s really annoying. Get a headset for it...or turn it off until you need'll just broadcast where you and your teammates are.
* Directions/Rules/Maps/Timing/etc - print them off at least the night before and leave them on top of your gear bag (which you packed the night before right?!?). A lot of games start early and there's breakfast/packing/travel/taking-a-sh*t time to factor in. DON'T be late...BE early. Game hosts are usually running around doing a lot of them out by getting there early, signing in, chrony/whatever and being ready to go when the host says, "Let's go". Getting to a game an hour early gives you lots of time to get geared up and prep'd for the game. Don't be the a**hole everyone else is waiting for.

The Night Before:
- sh*t's all packed and ready to go
- batts are charged
- the directions/rules/details are printed
- fod/snacks are packed
- boots waiting at the front door.

Morning Of:
- fill water/hydration pack
- eat breakfast (a good one...not just a coffee)
- pack up and head out

On-site, before game starts:
- sign in, pay fee
- check in with host for any last minute details/changes
- gear up
- check start time with host
- chrony/function test weapons....then just clear them and put them down until the game starts
- chill out, kick back on your chair (you brought one right?) and watch all the retards run around trying to find a charger for their battery while you're waiting for the host to kick things off.
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Old October 27th, 2009, 09:25   #6
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Signing Up For Games - What's Expected From You

If you stick around ASC long enough, you'll see occasional flare ups regarding attendance, scheduling and participation of games. Here are some highlights and some tips for avoiding the subsequent shit storms:

1. Shoot'em Ups vs. Structured Events
There are two main types of games...Shoot'em Ups and Structured Games.

Shoot'em Ups - These are the more casual easy going games. Often not much more than just an arranged time/place for guys to get together and wail on each other. Lots of shooting, some loose tactics and quite often, lots of fun. Camo/BDU setups might not matter, teams are usually split right at the start to balance things out. Comms (radios) are often not needed. Simple games of straight elimination, attack/defend, etc... Typically no ammo/loadout limits.

Structured Events- These are events that often planned months in advance. Teams are sorted out well ahead of time, they are usually run on a schedule. Mission objectives and briefings are the norm. C&C structure, comms, maps, etc...are usually deployed in full force. Teams are usually broken down into squads, squads usually organize themselves and coordinate firepower/roles so things are covered off most effeciently. They are not all MilSims (Military Simulations)...they can be highly organized Zombie Nights, Terminator games (complete with glowing red eyes!!), etc... Typically there are load out and ammo rules.

Shoot'em ups are like checkers...Structured Events are like chess.

So...why all the fuss?!? For Shoot'em Ups, it's so easy going that most times as long as there's a minimum number of people that show up (some fields won't give you space unless min numbers are met) really doesn't matter if you confirm in advance or not. The Game Host (Host) doesn't do much more than book the place and try to help new guys get sorted out. If you commit to going...and then don't go...the game will probably continue on. NOTE: It's still f*cking rude to commit and then to just not should post as soon as possible that you're pulling out. Hosts need to think about how to make the games enjoyable for all...and it does make a difference if 15 guys show up vs. 35. But for Shoot'em Ups....the game's still going to be the same.

For Structured Events...flaky attendance can really make or break the event. Quite often the scenario necessitates that there's a player cap/limit on one or both sides. If numbers of guys pull out (or WORSE just don't show up), leave early, etc....the scenario stands a good chance of falling apart. This is like a big kick in the nuts to the Host/Organizers...basically a big "f*ck you very much for all the time you've put into this". It's also a disappointment to your teammates who have been counting on your support/efforts for months...and for your Opposition of the day, who are looking for a solid challenging fight (and then smiles all around afterwards).

What Can/Should You Do?
- Don't bother posting "Tentative", "I might make it out", "We'll see if I can get out of work", "Hope to see you guys".....It doesn't help firm up numbers for bookings, it doesn't help with planning, it doesn't help with anything.

- Simply confirm "IN" if you are sure that you can make it. When you confirm IN, you are taking an available slot away from everyone else and reserving it for yourself. (This is critical in some Structured Events). You are making a firm committment that you will be there, be on time, be ready for the game and stay for the whole game.

The Host is counting on your attendance, your teammates are counting on that and your opposition is counting on that.

* For some games you need to confirm your attendance, what team you're signing up for, and what role you'll be filling. Simply confiming "IN" is not enough in these need to read the mission brief (usually the first couple of posts) and confim enough details so the Host knows where to slot you.

- Real life stuff comes up...that's just life. So...If you have committed to a game and taken a is curteous and helpfull for everyone involved if you simply post up to the thread (or PM the organizer) and pull yourself out. It might not be necessary to detail how you need to take your dog to get de-wormed...a simple "OUT" usually does the trick.

- If you need to pull OUT...please try to do it as much in advance as possible. There are often guys waiting for your/any spot to free up. Most people have an inkling of what they're doing at least two days ahead of time...and that's enough time. Pulling OUT at midnight before the game or the morning not.

Consequences of Being a Flake:
- If you're habitually prepared for your "teammates" to dis-clude you from any organizational planning. Not really a fulfilling way to be part of the team. Getting the cold shoulder from everyone is just not fun.

- If you're habitually prepared to be refused entry into some games. You'll be on the Hosts' "Sh*t List" and/or you'll be politely asked not to attend.

- I have no idea how long some hosts may keep you on their "Sh*t list"...for some it may be permanent. For others it may be just for critical games.

- Some Hosts' lists are likely to be posted publically. Either in the After Action Report (AAR) or noted somewhere else. They might be shared between hosts...there is an Ontario Field Owners and Game Hosts group section...and there is a Denial of Service list there.

Here's a great bit written by an Ottawa guy (I've * the swearing so as not to offend the censors). If you're new to things and are interested in Structured's worth reading at least twice.

Originally Posted by ex View Post
My two cents for what it's worth is this:

This past season we started a website just for the LZ. We integrated a self register system that was designed by Smith so that people could sign up for games on the teams they wanted, or add themselves to a waiting list. You could move yourself around and join the other team or remove yourself completely.

The sad part is people would show up that did not sign up, and people didnt remove themselves in a timely manner if they had to bail. I kept a list of the chronic deserters and know who they are.

Pre pay was an option we tossed around but never implemented simply because it's not a guarantee someone will show up. Sure we got your money regardless but big deal, it's not about the money. It's about the sheer lack of commitment and childish behavior that is forcing us to close the doors next year and only let in a few people.

Yep the noobs are stuck and probably will not get invited in unless they are brought in by a respected/invited individual. I could give a rats ass if you don't have a car. Sort your sh*t out long before game day.

We are all supposed to be adults in the sport but more and more I see childish 20 somethings ruining it for everyone. Grow the f*ck up, take some responsibility for your actions or inactions and move forward. If you cant sort your sh*t out don't expect any sympathy from me or any other game host/field owner. Your f*cking with them and that's not cool. I'm not in this to wipe noses and spoon feed anyone.

Bottom line the immaturity and lack of commitment is what lead to the LZ being shut down to the public. My time is worth more than money just like yours so quit f*cking with it and everyone else's. Ottawa is Unique in that we do not have the player base like Toronto or Calgary, Vancouver etc. So if you sign up for a game and don't show, it does effect the rest of us that were able to get our old fat asses out of bed and run all day having fun in the sun/rain.

I just don't get this lazy f*cking attitude displayed by a very large number of fairly new players. We gave you all the tools to sign up, coordinate a ride, rent a gun, buy gear but it just didn't work because the commitment wasn't there to begin with.
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Old March 4th, 2010, 09:10   #7
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I know this is turning into a long read...but it seems to be common things that come up over and over, espescially with guys trying to start into things. Some of this are "soft" topics and not specific to-do's...rather things to keep in in mind as you go about things.

A bit more on shooting during game play:
This might not apply to every game...but is a standard expectation at many. When you're shooting at a target it's certainly fun and exciting to let rip with your rifle and blast off a ton of rounds downrange. Everyone's done it...I've done're buddy next to you does it. But it's really not necessary and sometimes outright against the rules for a particular game. Mostly put in for safety reasons.

A quick burst or 2-3 shots is all that's needed. Realistically, if you haven't hit them with that, you're probably not going to. Save your rounds...move to a better spot, coordinate with your buddies and outmanoever your opponent and get back into the fight. You'll probably find that your loadout goes a lot longer way, you end up suceeding more and everyone has a better time overall.

Now, if you're running a LMG/SAW/Support weapon...that's different. But even still...if you're shooting at someone...keep the burst of fire to 2 sec. Pause, then another burst. If you're shooting to suppress an area (as in creating a wall of fire to hold off/repel the enemy) then have at it, but keep in mind what's realistic. If a real LMG had a 100 rnd belt and fired 700rpm...then you've got 8sec of fire total before you'd need to "switch belts", and a machine gunner probably wouldn't cut loose for the whole belt at once! Build in those pauses, suppress an area, don't hammer on your opponents relentlessly (remember, it only takes one hit...the rest are wasted).

I'm not a tree-hugging hippie....but it's just simply insulting to the field owner and embarasses the whole group to leave a field when the parking lot, stanging area or even game play area ends up looking like a garbage dump.

Take a garbage/grocery bag with you...stash your stuff at the end of the day, put it out for others to use, make sure it gets put into a garbage bin.

Signing up and Rules for a Game
When you sign up for a game the host, and every other player, expects you to have fully read the rules, understood them and agree to abide by them. If you think there is something that's been up your question. It's likely that if you're wondering it, 10 other people are too and if nobody asks then you'll get 11 different interpretations of what to do....then when the sh*t hits the fan at the game, everyone thinks everyone else is cheating.

Some of the rules are really long and spelled out...some hosts post a really short version with the assumption that everyone knows the rules. If you haven't played a lot of games with the players that have signed up and the rules aren't detailed enough...ASK. They're going to be really pissed off when you show up just doing whatever you feel like.

Some games are posted far in advance. In general, the host will update the first post (or first and second post) with rules, rule changes, additional information, and the roster as things develop. It is your responsibility to go back through and re-read the most recent rules/info...right up to and including changes made just before game day. To be helpful, some hosts will repost the rules periodically if the thread is getting really long.

If you're signing up and bringing buddies to the game...and especially if they aren't on the forum's your responsibility to make sure they've read through the rules and understand them. Do them a favour and get them onto the thread to read the latest version for the game...print it out and have them read it on the way to the game...whatever you need to do. If they show up and blow the game for everyone, it will directly reflect on you.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 19:47   #8
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Originally Posted by dkcyber View Post
Originally Posted by Assault Pioneer View Post
lol nice thread contribution
irony much?

* I hope neither of you take offense when I report your posts to be deleted from this thread. The mods help voluntarily where they I'd prefer to keep the clean up requests to a minimum. Thanks

Last edited by m102404; September 28th, 2010 at 19:49..
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Old September 28th, 2010, 20:19   #9
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Great read. Too bad there are so many stickies in this forum that it's gonna get lost in the clutter (perhaps someone should consider pruning that number down to only a few).

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Old September 28th, 2010, 20:21   #10
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I just went through the whole thing and I must say, this is probably the best bit of material to learn from on the whole site. I'm just kind of unsure if people will actually dedicate themselves to trudge through the whole thing if they're the type that fuck around in their back yard (Which we have been seeing a stupid amount of lately.)

I'd suggest a really brief TL;DR summary somewhere, but thats just me. I wish there was a means to push newbies to read this thing.

Though, kudos to those that actually do it!

Last edited by Strelok; September 28th, 2010 at 20:24..
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Old February 19th, 2011, 19:45   #11
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I was wondering how much primary ammunition a airsofter should have in a regular shoot em up game? I was thinking around 1800, or 6 m4 hi-caps, but am not really sure due to lack of experience. So, guidance would be appreciated.

A bullet may have your name on it, but a grenade is addressed to whoever it may concern.

Last edited by Double|Rainbow; February 19th, 2011 at 19:45.. Reason: Fail
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Old February 19th, 2011, 19:56   #12
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Originally Posted by Double|Rainbow View Post
I was wondering how much primary ammunition a airsofter should have in a regular shoot em up game? I was thinking around 1800, or 6 m4 hi-caps, but am not really sure due to lack of experience. So, guidance would be appreciated.
Depends on what you play with and how long the games are. Obviously if yu game a support gun you will shoot more than someone gaming a BA. It never hurts to carry more mags unless you are carrying so many it slows you down. When I play I usually bring 8 x 130 rd mid-caps with me. I seldom go through more than 4 in a day unless there are some long fire fights. But you will notice that the more experianced you get the less you seem to shoot. You will notice more experianced players tend to shoot semi only or save auto for room clearing.
Originally Posted by Pinard View Post
eeyore, the more I look at your avatar, the more I find it looks like a vagina...
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Old February 19th, 2011, 19:59   #13
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Guessing that you're just starting out...

Most of the skirmish game sets are 20min-1hr long around here. You'll certainly have enough ammo

Most new guys would just take one or two hicaps at the most for skirmish games....just fill it up from a BB bag inbetween games. If I had to guess I'd say that most guys take 8-12 mid cap mags (avg 10 mag @ 120rnds each = 1200). It's completely dependant on who much you shoot...some might not get through a single mag....others might end up emptying them all.

While it's completely understandable to want to just blast the shit out of everything when you first start....try getting some mid cap mags. Having to change mags and judiciously use your ammo really adds to the excitement of things.

Best of luck
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Old February 19th, 2011, 20:00   #14
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Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
Depends on what you play with and how long the games are. Obviously if yu game a support gun you will shoot more than someone gaming a BA. It never hurts to carry more mags unless you are carrying so many it slows you down. When I play I usually bring 8 x 130 rd mid-caps with me. I seldom go through more than 4 in a day unless there are some long fire fights. But you will notice that the more experianced you get the less you seem to shoot. You will notice more experianced players tend to shoot semi only or save auto for room clearing.
Thanks for the advice
Most appreciated

A bullet may have your name on it, but a grenade is addressed to whoever it may concern.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 11:47   #15
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Thank you for the read. It is really nice for new players like me.
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