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Old August 11th, 2009, 02:40   #1
Lakonian
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Trade dispute: ylasfar.

Well, I didn't want to make this public, but I have been given no other option. I'm done being reasonable.

On July 29th, I posted a wanted ad for a Samson style rail for a VFC/Dboys AK74U. I was promptly contacted by Younes Lasflar, who said he had one in decent condition, but a screw wouldn't screw. I agreed to buy it because a screw isn't a problem.

Upon reception of the unit, I didn't notice anything. But, later, during an installation attempt, I noticed 4/5 of the screws do NOT screw in due to the inserts being destroyed or screws being stripped (3/4 of the side screws have issues screwing in ). Also, there are deep gashes located on the unit from previous, messy, removal attempts.

I contacted Younes to arrange a refund (140 of the $165 paid, shipping back on me). I found this extremely reasonable. He refused saying he does not offer refunds, despite KNOWINGLY selling me an unserviceable item... I was NOT warned about the extent of it's condition, and he made NO effort to list exact condition.

So, I am making a public plea for resolution. If it is not resolved in 24 hours (money refunded), I will take this to a new, and much more uncomfortable height.

www.recol.ca has been contacted.

Thanks.

Last edited by Lakonian; August 11th, 2009 at 02:43..
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Old August 11th, 2009, 14:36   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .JET View Post
I suggest you get rid of all the content in this post and contact staff instead of this. Do not bring Classifieds shit in public.
Week old noobs don't have the right to tell others how to act on this board, as surebet stated it is semi-commonly practiced.

Kos, I can help retap them holes if you want if you end up being stuck with it.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 14:48   #3
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I understand. I thought that no matter what, Classifieds stuff should be kept private, especially if guns were involved. Guess I was wrong, sorry.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 14:53   #4
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You can't advertise that you have controlled goods for sale, either by post, signature or PM. This includes direct advertising as well as inderect references. The same is true for sollicitating buying said parts.

This is applicable all over the board, in every non-AV'd section. We have a special AV-only section where sales are sometimes discussed outside of the formal WTS/WTB format, but since it's only us, it's tolerated.

Discussing a trade that is in progress or that is over doesn't advertise an available item, so there is no issue as long as it stays in the context of that specific exchange.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 14:56   #5
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Originally Posted by .JET View Post
I understand. I thought that no matter what, Classifieds stuff should be kept private, especially if guns were involved. Guess I was wrong, sorry.
except when things go wrong and you need help getting resolution, and there are no guns involved in this transaction either.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 15:00   #6
Lakonian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qlong View Post
Week old noobs don't have the right to tell others how to act on this board, as surebet stated it is semi-commonly practiced.

Kos, I can help retap them holes if you want if you end up being stuck with it.
That's not the only issue.

There are parts where you can't tap because the units been stripped so bad. I mean, the damn material's been worn out so badly, that tapping would possibly cause more harm than good.

And don't worry, I don't intend on getting stuck with this.
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Old August 14th, 2009, 21:18   #7
Gunfreak
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Alright, guess i'll give my version of how things went.

I knew about the condition of the RIS , that some inserts were stripped and some screws endlessly screws in etc...but its been a while i didn't handled the RIS, i also told him to give me some time to verify it more to give him a more complete description of the RIS. But he told me not to bother, to ship it ASAP and that it should be an easy fix by his gunsmith. But when he got it , I guess he saw that it was a problem that his gunsmith could'nt repair, he wanted a refund.

AS most of the items sold on these forums, it is sold AS IS, even if not clearly stated. He knew it was a used item and i warned him about it.

As my trader rating shows, i am an honest seller and i don't try to screw over people for a couple of dollars.

Thank you all for your time,
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Old August 14th, 2009, 22:56   #8
Lakonian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ylasfar View Post
Alright, guess i'll give my version of how things went.

I knew about the condition of the RIS , that some inserts were stripped and some screws endlessly screws in etc...but its been a while i didn't handled the RIS, i also told him to give me some time to verify it more to give him a more complete description of the RIS. But he told me not to bother, to ship it ASAP and that it should be an easy fix by his gunsmith. But when he got it , I guess he saw that it was a problem that his gunsmith could'nt repair, he wanted a refund.

AS most of the items sold on these forums, it is sold AS IS, even if not clearly stated. He knew it was a used item and i warned him about it.

As my trader rating shows, i am an honest seller and i don't try to screw over people for a couple of dollars.

Thank you all for your time,

Please provide any PMs where I rushed you in any way/shape/form....

I never rushed a single thing. I don't exactly know how "I think my gunsmith can work it out" can be misconstrued as "send it now, don't worry about anything else", or "Send ASAP". Infact, I said "take your time", multiple times!

Also, saying something like " some screws don't screw in" isn't saying " There's NO way to install this thing on your gun". I'm certain he knew that the item wasn't capable of being installed, and sold anyway.. And this is why we're here.

So, last warning. If I am not given a refund (for $140, like previously offered) by Monday @ 6pm, I will give RECOL.CA the go ahead.

Thanks.
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Old August 14th, 2009, 23:35   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ylasfar View Post
AS most of the items sold on these forums, it is sold AS IS, even if not clearly stated. He knew it was a used item and i warned him about it.
I didn't really get involved since Kos is an ass (no offence) but this comment is really sticking in my craw!

Actually I think the opposite is true, 90% of the things sold on here don't state "sold as is" and would gladly give a refund for a useless or damaged product. Even if it states AS IS you MUST explain the item and any defects in full clarity. If you hide something or don't disclose everything wrong with the item (not to mention you never stated it was sold AS IS) then that creates a very serious problem.

Hell why sell an item that can't even be used? Why not state in the ad "CANNOT BE ATTACHED DUE TO DAMAGED SCREWS"?

It is up to YOU to verify the item is EXACTLY as described in the ad whether you've handled it lately or not.

Kos if you still have copies of PM's concerning this deal post them up so people can clearly see how the deal went down.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 00:01   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ylasfar View Post
....AS most of the items sold on these forums, it is sold AS IS, even if not clearly stated. He knew it was a used item and i warned him about it....
Bullshit - you have to specifically list that an item is "as is", otherwise there is the commonly accepted concept that you are selling a servicable item.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ylasfar View Post
As my trader rating shows, i am an honest seller and i don't try to screw over people for a couple of dollars.
Then give him a refund.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakonian View Post
....www.recol.ca has been contacted...
Jumping the gun a little quick are we? Way to bring down unwarranted attention on the community.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 00:27   #11
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Lol "as is" eh? Every single time I've seen that phrase in the classifieds the seller has explained IN DETAIL what was wrong with the item so I don't know wher you're going with that comment

in my experience, this community never forgets when someone screws another over, I sugges you b the bigger man and offer a refund, to not do so would make you look like a real asshole, kinda like "HAHA I sold you that crappy part and now you're STUCK with it!"
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Old August 15th, 2009, 01:07   #12
Lakonian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokanee View Post

Jumping the gun a little quick are we? Way to bring down unwarranted attention on the community.
Sorry Kokanee, but if I can't get my money back by asking, what is the alternative? This could've been resolved in a day. Bad part, return + get some cash in the process, as I only asked for $140.

Drache, I'm only an ass if I haven't had enough sleep, or just got off work.

Thanks for the support, guys. I will post the PMs up ASAP.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 01:34   #13
Gunfreak
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The thing that really pisses me off, is i really warned him about the bad state of the RIS, about the screws etc...and he told me that he would figure it out with his gunsmith and to ship it anyway. but now he changed his mind and wants a refund...

i am really curious to see the pms ,if he has them, to have everyone judge by themselves, instead of pointing fingers without proofs.

let see the pms and let the community judge for themselves...

and i am ready to accept the verdict, if the majority thinks that I was wrong, i will give him his 140 $ when i receive the package back.

sounds fair ?
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Old August 15th, 2009, 02:01   #14
Drache
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ylasfar View Post
The thing that really pisses me off, is i really warned him about the bad state of the RIS, about the screws etc...and he told me that he would figure it out with his gunsmith and to ship it anyway. but now he changed his mind and wants a refund...

i am really curious to see the pms ,if he has them, to have everyone judge by themselves, instead of pointing fingers without proofs.

let see the pms and let the community judge for themselves...

and i am ready to accept the verdict, if the majority thinks that I was wrong, i will give him his 140 $ when i receive the package back.

sounds fair ?
Ok so first off, did you actually tell Kos that the item was UNUSABLE in those words or did you just state that one of the screws were unusable?

Also why don't you post your PM's over the incident for us all to compare to?

Also Kos, I notice that you received a RETALIATORY NEGATIVE FEEDBACK over this. Talk to an admin about getting that removed as it's against the rules.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 02:20   #15
Lakonian
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PMs IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER.

From : ylasfar
To : Lakonian
Date : 2009-07-29 03:09
Title : VFC AK74U Samson rail
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,

i have one, http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthr...&highlight=vfc

its the pictures of the gun that i bought and it came with it.

Its a very rare item, not sold in US or Canada. Its 91 $ US in Japan, before shipping , conversion, customs etc etc etc..

so my firm price for it would 175 $ Shipped.

let me know if ur interested.
______________________________________________

From : Lakonian
To : ylasfar
Date : 2009-07-29 12:44
Title : Re: VFC AK74U Samson rail
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I think I can do that.

I can only use EMT though. I hope that's not an issue.

Cheers

_____________________________________________

From : Lakonian
To : ylasfar
Date : 2009-07-29 13:10
Title : Ahh! Yes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, I noticed your signature. EMT is good to go, pending my payment from work (in about 6 hours ).

I will buy the rail no matter what [referring to money transfer. Context supports this. Also, damage was mentioned AFTER.] , but in the event that I fall short, is it possible for me to cover cost of the rail (I'm assuming 165ish), and send an EMT the following week for the shipping?

Send me your info when ya can
Cheers

______________________________________________


From : ylasfar
To : Lakonian
Date : 2009-07-29 13:31
Title : Re: Ahh! Yes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sounds good, EMT email is CHOPPED

one thing i have to warn you about though, some screws dont hold anymore, they lost some of the grip, so u'll have to use some hardware stuff or glue to keep them tight. Let me know if that changes anything for you.

thanks,

____________________________________________

From : Lakonian
To : ylasfar
Date : 2009-07-29 13:40
Title : Re: Ahh! Yes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm. Which screws are we talking about here? Are they important?

Thanks
_____________________________________________

From : ylasfar
To : Lakonian
Date : 2009-07-29 13:56
Title : Re: Ahh! Yes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i am leaving for work right now, i'll have a look at it when i come back ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakonian
Hmm. Which screws are we talking about here? Are they important?

Thanks
___________________________________________

From : Lakonian
To : ylasfar
Date : 2009-07-29 23:39
Title : Re: Ahh! Yes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey, are you willing to take $165? I can that over right now

____________________________________________


From : ylasfar
To : Lakonian
Date : 2009-07-29 23:41
Title : Re: Ahh! Yes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ok, sounds good, but like i said, they`re some screws that are loose, like u screw over n over again but it doesnt get tighter kinda screws.....

i`ll ship it tomorrow, let me know ur address.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakonian
Hey, are you willing to take $165? I can that over right now
[Typo: I can hand that over right now ]

_____________________________________________

From : Lakonian
To : ylasfar
Date : 2009-07-30 00:02
Title : Re: Ahh! Yes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I can get my gunsmith to work it out.

ADDRESS CHOPPED
PASSWORD CHOPPED

____________________________________________

From : Lakonian
To : ylasfar
Date : 2009-07-30 22:15
Title : Re: Ahh! Yes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey bud! Saw you accepted the EMT

Please let me know when everything's been shipped and whatnot. Much appreciated!

Cheers

____________________________________________

From : ylasfar
To : Lakonian
Date : 2009-07-30 23:05
Title : Re: Ahh! Yes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi, i worked double shift today n didnt have time to ship, will ship it tomorrow ( Friday ).

sorry for the inconvenience,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakonian
Hey bud! Saw you accepted the EMT

Please let me know when everything's been shipped and whatnot. Much appreciated!

Cheers
_____________________________________________

From : Lakonian
To : ylasfar
Date : 2009-07-30 23:08
Title : Re: Ahh! Yes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No problem

Just give me the heads up when you do.

Cheers!

_____________________________________________


From : ylasfar
To : Lakonian
Date : 2009-08-01 02:08
Title : Re: Ahh! Yes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,

was shipped out today express, tracking number is : 0103289000017225

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakonian
No problem

Just give me the heads up when you do.

Cheers!
___________________________________________

[NOTE: I opened the package, and placed the unit on my desk. Went to run some errands, gave it a detailed inspection afterwards]


From : Lakonian
To : ylasfar
Date : 2009-08-04 17:40
Title : Re: Ahh! Yes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Got it

It's very nice. Thanks for the speedy shipping

Trader ratings will be left immediately!
Cheers!

________________________________________

From : Lakonian
To : ylasfar
Date : 2009-08-04 19:53
Title : Issues
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey, just freed up some time to try and install this thing, but, it doesn't seem to want to stay.... Also, 3/4 of the side screws refuse to stay in......

[NOTE: The way this unit works by pinching the barrel at it's base (via a vise-grip mechanism) where it connects to the trunnion. It is semi-freefloated, which means that it has NO OTHER contact with the barrel other than the aforementioned. So, if there is any stripped screw in this area, the unit becomes unserviceable. Much more so if the inserts are stripped too. ]
_______________________________________

From : Lakonian
To : ylasfar
Date : 2009-08-04 21:55
Title : Re: Issues
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried again, but noticed the rail's threads (and little inserts) are stripped aswell it seems. If it were just the screws, I wouldn't have a problem (gunsmith would've been able to take care of it).. However, this piece is totally unusable.

Listen, here's what I'll do.. I'll send back the kit, pay for shipping, and I'd only want 140 in return. I think this is fair, all considered.

Thanks.

____________________________________________

From : ylasfar
To : Lakonian
Date : 2009-08-04 21:41
Title : Re: Issues
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,

I gave u all the parts that came with the RIS, maybe make sure you use all the parts. About the screws, i told you about them not holding in and i told u that i could check it out more to give you a proper statement about its condition, but u told me to just ship it and u`ll have it checked out by ur gunsmith...

on what gun are u trying to install it on ? they`re meant for AK74U only..

i dont have any instruction manual about the RIS, maybe look if theres a youtube video about how to install it or something.

hope it helps,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakonian
Hey, just freed up some time to try and install this thing, but, it doesn't seem to want to stay.... Also, 3/4 of the side screws refuse to stay in......

____________________________________________

From : Lakonian
To : ylasfar
Date : 2009-08-10 01:33
Title : Re: Issues
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you receive my pm?

Listen, I think I'm being more than reasonable considering you sold off a piece that wasn't serviceable at all..

$140/165 refunded, and it'll be shipped back on me. This is extremely fair.

Get back to me as soon as possible, or I'll be forced to take this a step further.
Thanks.

_______________________________________
From : ylasfar
To : Lakonian
Date : 2009-08-10 08:04
Title : Re: Issues

Hi,
sorry no refunds, i do not offer a return policy. I stated the condition of the RIS and u told me u can fix it with ur gunsmith, i even offered to check it out more to give u a more precise analysis, but u wanted me to ship it ASAP.

so, sorry, no refund.

_______________________________________

From : Lakonian
To : ylasfar
Date: 2009-08-10 12:47
Title: Re: Issues

You didn't state the extent of the condition. You only said the screws. If that were the case, then yeah, the smith would be able to fix it. But the threads on the inserts are bored out.

And I never said "send asap". I said "I think I can get the smith to work it out". If there were any doubts of this, as a good seller, it'd be your responsibility to inform me. This is how good trade is conducted.

So, if you're certain that you will not give a partial refund, I'll be forced to go to lengths which will ensure a full refund, and possibly some other headaches for yourself.

Thank you.
_______________________________________



I can get photo documentation in about 10 hours if you need to have a hearty facepalm.

Cheers.


[If mods need a raw file, I can email it. ]
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