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See through guns and the death of "airsoft"

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Old August 7th, 2009, 21:12   #106
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Drake saw this coming, almost exactly 1 year ago. He gets first dibs on "I told you so":

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I hadn't commented on this thread until now. I've been reading, and had been expecting one of the "old boys" to speak up, but it seems everyone decided to remain silent and/or ignore this.

To be honest, I'm somewhat flabbergasted by most of the responses. I get where they're coming from, specially where the newest members are concerned, but I'm still amazed at the complete about-face a lot of people seem to have performed.

In the old days of ASC (this would be roughly 8-10 months ago) there were hordes vehemently lauding airsoft for it's realism, taking pride in how much better our MilSim was compared to paintball, even arrogantly mocking paintballers and clearsoters alike.

Now look at you.

The lure of cheap prices and desperate hope for marginal acceptance by the mainstream would have you readily surrender a large part of what airsoft is about (for those of you with short attention spans, that would be "realism").

I'm old enough to have seen this before, not in airsoft but in paintball; "demilitarization" was what they'd referred to it as, kiddies hoping their moms would accept it as a legitimate sport and let them play rather than seeing it as a wargame played by crazy survivalists who live in the mountains or as the evil guns -- since yes, paintball guns were once frowned upon as guns (before they became colorful markers).

Personally, I see the same schism occurring here. Just like the those paintballers opposed to the neon clown suits carried on in the woods with black guns and camo, there'll be those in the airsoft community who will go back to living comfortably under the radar -- just as we had been for a decade before.

Some people were hellbent on having the sport grow and expand, while others, sometimes motivated by little more than greed, exploited the demand. This has without a doubt contributed to getting use into the situation we're now in -- had we stayed small and under the radar, we'd probably still benefit from the same status quo, which IMO was better than fucking clearsoft.

I know some of you reading this (the handful who haven't skipped it yet) are wondering why such opposition to clearsoft. It isn't just about clearsoft: for the serious players who field FMU kit and invest serious amounts of money into gear, even most of the cheap Junk Gongs and other bottom tier entries in the market were utterly undesirable. Sure, the CYMA AKSU and A&K 249s are great with a bit of work, but that's a far cry from clearsoft.

Maybe it's time someone set up a ClearsoftCanada board.
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Old August 7th, 2009, 21:47   #107
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Old August 7th, 2009, 22:36   #108
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Well from a new guy sort of view I completely understand what the vets are saying, with expansion there is always corruption or deviation from the proper path. Doesn’t matter what, Religion, Imperialism, Airsoft, sports in general. Hell I’m personally just waiting for my av to go through so I can get better guns and gear. But because I would still like to play a few games before I lose my life to the military for the next year, (BMQ) and (BIQ) I bought one of those G&G half breeds and until I get some proper low caps the mag tickling highcaps.

To be honest ill feel like crap using that stuff but when it comes down to it I would rather be able to participate then stay at home wishing I was on the field waiting for the gun I want to get, to popup on the classifieds or order it in. Besides until I get posted to a unit there is no sense in trying to get a proper AEG, (which will be about the Third thing I do next to an apartment and a phone line) as I won’t be able to have a fixed address to mail stuff to.

Short and the long of it, the amount of gear owned or the cost doesn’t always say a player is dedicated, nor does the lack of say the opposite. Every newcomer should be met with the same disposition and let the player no matter the size of his/her wallet prove how much of or how little of an ass he or she really is, Just my opinion.
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Old August 7th, 2009, 22:40   #109
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Besides until I get posted to a unit there is no sense in trying to get a proper AEG, (which will be about the Third thing I do next to an apartment and a phone line) as I wonít be able to have a fixed address to mail stuff to.
Can get things mailed to the unit you're posted to, although in BMQ and shorter courses like that it can be a bit of a pain in the ass, and a bit unnecessary unless it's just letters.
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Old August 7th, 2009, 22:47   #110
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I didn't read the entire thread. But basically, I agree with the old farts. I was right in the camp that said the halfbreeds were going to create a degredation in the quality of Airsoft in Canada, and it definetly has.

I remember a post by Bravo One-Six that said Airsoft is about collecting models of real looking guns and clearsoft has no place in it.

I also don't buy all this elitist crap. I'm not fucking elitist because I have a $900 gun, and $300 tac-vest, and several hundred dollars of other gear. I'm someone who enjoys playing airsoft kitted out properly, and enjoy playing with and against people who "get in the zone" and become a part of the game -not against people who where shorts and t-shirts and just want to shoot at other people. If you think I'm an elitist, fuck off and go play paintball.

EDIT:
Found it: http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthr...5886#post95886

Granted, he was talking about CT crapsoft, but IMO the G&G Halfbreeds aren't that far off.
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Old August 7th, 2009, 22:54   #111
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I don't think the cansofts had anything to do with this current fiasco. Cansofts and their readily painted lower receivers, were essentially just like any other airsoft guns. Many has very respectable out of the box performance. Given our situation, they have a legitimate place in the Canadian market.

The crapsoft in Moogy's thread is far, far below even the worst cansofts available and right into the LPEG that Cyma and Wells don't even really make anymore. The only reason why the crapsoft made it on to ASC is because no one either asked Moogy what he was selling or didn't care when they took his money for ASC Retailer status. The shift into transparency could've/should've/would've been stopped at the minimum necessary level to get decently performing airsoft guns into Canada if someone had made the necessary decision to do so. Instead, ASC Retailer policy didn't care enough to clearly distinguish between airsoft and crapsoft, resulting in this situation.

I think we're over blowing the decline of the community. I think this is nothing more than a really, really bad call on the part of ASC Retailer membership.
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Old August 7th, 2009, 23:09   #112
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this comment makes sense.
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Old August 7th, 2009, 23:10   #113
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I think this sums up my opinion a little better (just responded to a PM with it, thought I'd post it here):

I have two issues against the halfbreeds. The first is the fact that for years we've been told that the reason AEG's are retarded expensive is because they're a bitch to import. That's true. Then these "canadian legal" halfbreeds come along.. and they're $150 less than the full black, full metal ones. And G&G at that. I'd very much rather pay $600 for a full black Classic Army gun that is superior to a G&G halfbreed in every way than $450 for a gun that's 50% clear.

My second issue is the fact that age verification now means a hell of a lot less. People don't need to be AV'd to get guns anymore. While this could have an effect of expanding the community, the more common result is the degredation of the quality of the people playing. With guns like the shitty Aftermath ones so readily available for cheap, casual players are becoming more and more common. The kind of "weekend warriors" who just want to go shoot shit and don't care about wearing camos or vests or anything.

Now, the above might seem a bit like an elitist attitude, but honestly, I started playing and invested numerous thousands in airsoft because I loved the idea of playing semi-milsim. I'm not an overly serious player, and I'm certaintly not a hard-core milsimer, but I sure as hell HATE playing against people who come with clear guns, shorts, t-shirts, hi-caps, and have no desire to play as a team. It totally kills the game. And unfortunetly the increased availability of the clear guns has increased the amount of those players.

That's my $0.02. Other people may disagree but that's my take on it.
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Old August 7th, 2009, 23:12   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loathing View Post
Can get things mailed to the unit you're posted to, although in BMQ and shorter courses like that it can be a bit of a pain in the ass, and a bit unnecessary unless it's just letters.
The main problem is i belive that i wouldn't be able to have any thing like that while im living in the shacks. If I am wrong however plese coret me Still i dont know if a Tar21 is in the list of acceptable kit during a locker inspection
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Old August 7th, 2009, 23:24   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalnaren View Post
I'm not an overly serious player, and I'm certaintly not a hard-core milsimer, but I sure as hell HATE playing against people who come with clear guns, shorts, t-shirts, hi-caps, and have no desire to play as a team. It totally kills the game.
I agree with you on that, thats why the second I have a chance Iím getting some lowcaps so I can lose the noisy highcap. As for the dress I donít see any reason a dress code could not or should not be enforced. A cheap set of green bdu's and some boots can cost less than 80$ if you look around. Someone wearing flashy shorts and t-shirts or jerseys ruins it whether its paintball (woods ball not that space dildo speedball crap) or airsoft.
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Old August 7th, 2009, 23:50   #116
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Same thing with the hi-cap mags. Why can't you just not allow someone to play if they're using one? I don't think it's too hard to hear someone rattling around and see them pouring bbs into a mag.
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Old August 8th, 2009, 00:50   #117
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I think that the clearsoft are too expensive compared to US prices. Seriously, the point of having half-breeds is to make them as easy to get them across the borders as the US. Why should we still pay 400$ for a semi-decent gun, when they get TMs for 250$?

And for those who complain, what about other countries, people get their gun for next to nothing. Is airsoft dead in those countries ? Are only the "weekends warriors" playing over there ?
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Old August 8th, 2009, 01:07   #118
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Airsoft in countries where it's cheap and easy to obtain guns have the law to back up their communities and access to guns.

In Canada, demand outstrips supply for anything of quailty, we do not have the law on our side, our geography means alot as well, with respect to varying attitudes across the country. As a result, our comunities are small, there are fewer of them and folks are just a tad bit protective and stand-offish. This is to be expected. So, communities have set standards high.
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Old August 8th, 2009, 01:08   #119
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to the OP....

come on man. wake up. in all reality, if its a clear piece of crap 60.00 (overpriced gun), its still a plastic BB shooting toy.

man, i cant believe so many of the elitists on board..... i mean, to an outsider, most people would think that anyone who spends 500 - 1500 on a bb firing toy is an idiot....grown men, wearing bdu's and all geared up with throat mikes calling out "alpha tango bla bla", toting plastic shooting bb guns and playing army..... and the high priced gun owners sitting there smirking at a guy with a "clear" gun.... see where this is going? it all seems rather foolish.

to me the death of airsoft, like many hobbies is in the attitudes of those who are in the hobby..... case in point, im involved with RC Heli's..... most of mine are between 800.00 (for small 450's) and up to 3200.00 for my Trex 600E, and if im at the field and some kid comes along with a piece of crap RTF blade 400, i tell him, good for you, and if he asks for any help, ill spend the whole afternoon, helping him set up his swash plate or gyro or whatever, help him learn to hover, ect.... and never tell him he's stupid for buying an eflyte rtf bird.... just encourage him and hope he hangs in such a tough hobby, and doesnt get discouraged..... unfortunately there seems to be just the opposite attitude in this hobby..... guys immediately jumping down a noobs throat, or assuming so many negative things in a simple post.

dont get me wrong, im not saying all guys are like that! just that i see that attitude around alot..... thats the kind of stuff that attributes to the death of a hobby IMO.

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Old August 8th, 2009, 01:25   #120
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You're missing the point, ginnz.

If someone shows up at your RC location and insists that his toy is every bit as viable a RC helicopter as your chopper, would you still treat like he's actually serious about the activity?

There is a certain line minimal level of investment in almost all activities, before one drops into something else completely. If you are using a clear WalMart LPEG, you're not playing airsoft. No more than getting on first base is real sex, or mountain biking with a Fisherprice tricycle being a good idea.
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