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Old June 28th, 2009, 20:19   #1
Darth Tigger
 
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Overwhelmed first timer.

Ok guys, Im asking for a little patience with a complete Newb!

I just played my first game, and I had a great time. Im looking to buy a gun. I have done a LOT of looking and quite frankly I am completely overwhelmed by all the information out there. Between the Retailers all saying My guns are the best and the players debating the longevity of the Trigger mech or the spring or whatever. Im left more confused than when I started.

Now before you go asking the first question you always ask, I joined the Canadian Infantry in 1987, so that will give you a clue to my age, and my ability level.

I am looking for some specific advice, from Canadian players, because the guys I met this weekend seemed to know what they are talking about.
  • I am willing to spend in the 400 500 range, but less expensive is always better.
  • I am looking for a gun that is a realistic replica of a modern assault rifle. (Im partial to the C7/M16/AR14 Which you guys seem to call an M4)
  • I am also looking for the best combination of Long range and Accuracy
  • I would like one that wont break every game, and when it does break, I can fix it rather than throwing it away.
  • I am thinking Electric, but I will consider Air if its a better choice.
I am also interested in a side arm, but Im far less particular about that. I just want it Semi auto.
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Old June 28th, 2009, 20:26   #2
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with a price range like that, you wont be able to get much. my advice is to get one of those clear or smoked receivers from Mach1airsoft and slowly upgrade it overtime. that way, you can have your gun and some money for gear. you can buy a C8 metal body later as well as a side arm and some internal upgrades for the gun to make it shoot hard and accurate.

hopefully this helps:

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=72497

still, if you want to both have your cake and eat it too, the smoked receiver guns by ICS and G&G (i forget which one has them) would be your best bet. you can get those guns here:

http://www.mach1airsoft.com/web/

you can also get a pistol there too if you dont mind the smoked clear lower. i hope that helps. just post again in this thread if you have any more questions
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Old June 28th, 2009, 20:29   #3
AngelusNex
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Get a G&G clear lowered model M4 or M16, I got and M16A2 and it's the best gun I've ever fired (I've shot and or owned many high grade guns: Tms, Ca, Systema and the G&G beat the all). Just dis assemble it, put a layer of primer on the lower then a few of silver then a few of black and it'll be perfect.
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Old June 28th, 2009, 20:30   #4
Darth Tigger
 
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I dont mind painting it at all.

What is G&G?
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Old June 28th, 2009, 20:30   #5
Kokanee
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Agree w/ Sepulcrum. If you're a new player getting in and are looking for a deal the newer "cansoft" (clear or smoked upper receiver) airsoft rifles are just the thing.

Even so, once your age verification goes thru you'll have access to the AV forums, and just browsing it right now I'm seeing alot of full metal AEG's in the $450-$500 range.
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Old June 28th, 2009, 20:41   #6
ex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Tigger View Post
I dont mind painting it at all.

What is G&G?
http://www.guay2.com/

This is the company website..the guns are slightly different here in Canada, I.E they have a smoked or Clear Lower Receiver. Once your AV goes through you'll be able to see more in the classifieds as well.

Here's a Review
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=80329
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Old June 28th, 2009, 21:02   #7
swatt13
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get age verified, go on the classifieds and find a used tm or classic army for around the $500 mark. there are a few echo1/ jg m4s as well id reccommend those. air rifels are not the norm anymore, electric is the most common and more versatile (most upgradable. repairable)
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Old June 28th, 2009, 21:27   #8
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Find a good gundoc. They will be able to do lots of things to your gun to keep it running in tip top shape.

Where did you go for your first game, you probably could have asked if there was an AV rep on the field (assuming it was organized by one of the teams on the forums).

Next game you go to definitely ask about getting AV'ed. Even if you don't use it it still shows that you did take the time to get AV'ed and people may be more likely to help you.

I'm going to assume you know what kind of range and accuracy to expect after playing your first game and in that case an M16 or DMR variant might be your thing.

Pretty much every gun is a realistic replica of modern rifles. Save for the guns that have plastic bodies but they still are pretty detailed and fairly sturdy.

I don't know of any guns that run on air (save for classic airsoft guns) but I'm going to assume you're meaning gas as in a GBB or NBB (TM Mk.23). It's definitely better to get electric.

If you want quality be prepared to pay for it, you'll probably be looking at the higher end of your budget in that case (at least $450+ for the body only). All guns will be fixable or able to take replacement parts, depending on your mechanical knowledge/skill you may be able to do this work yourself or you may have to go to a gundoc to do it for you. It's probably advised to take something like a TM if you don't plan on doing too many upgrades/keep it stock since people seem to have run those for thousands upon thousands of rounds (stock) and haven't broken yet. It's when you start upgrading that you will start messing with things and make it unreliable. Like with a car if you don't open up the hood you'll keep the reliability it's only when you open the hood to do upgrades that you start messing with the reliability of the car.
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Old June 28th, 2009, 21:37   #9
AngelusNex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Tigger View Post
I dont mind painting it at all.

What is G&G?
brand. they make non-illegal to import guns ( therefore cheaper) and they are electric, aegs (auto electric gun)
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Old June 29th, 2009, 02:07   #10
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Manufacturer is generally more important then the style. Generally all airsoft aeg's work the same so how it looks like outside is up to you. Though the advice in the Airsoft Newbie Buying Guide about styles is good. Generally ak47, m16/m4 or mp5 are good starter gun styles due to the availability of accessories and upgrades. You say you like the m16 which we seem to call an m4. That's incorrect. The m4 is the carbine version of the m16, they have a shorter barrel and usually a collapsible stock (though they can have full stocks). Just wanted to clarify that for you before you accidentally bought something you didn't want.

For $200, the best you could manage is Aftermath stuff. Both the Broxa (full stock MP5) and the Kraken (AK47) are decent bargain basement guns, about $160 or so each. Stay away from Aftermath's Kirenex or Knight (both M4 variants) and the Lycaon (collapsible stock MP5) though, not a good rep.

If you're willing to go up to $300 you could get a JG. Yeah JG's are China clones but they're getting quite respectable nowadays. JG's M4 runs about $290. You could get one of the G&G cansoft (clear receiver) M4's for about $340. G&G is the cheapest of the midgrade guns. $400-$450 would get you an ICS which is a higher end midgrade gun. $500-$600 would get you a G&P, there's some debate on whether this is the lowest of the higrade guns or if it should rank higher. Either way they make nice guns.

If you can afford it, highgrade guns such as Tokyo Marui or Classic Army are the way to go. They're going to run you $600-$700. Though if the M4/M16 style is what you want then I'd recommend staying away from stock TM's, the barrel wobble and creaking are pretty bad on the stock TM M4/M16's.

I did extensive research and settled on the Tactical Carbine version of the Classic Army M15A4 (basically a full stock m4) as my first gun. If an Armalite is what you're looking for then I think it's the best of all possible versions. You have the shortened M4 carbine barrel, which makes you less likely to smack your barrel off something when turning quickly, combined with the full stock which houses a large battery. Small batteries don't have near the run time of a large battery, not to mention that the reinforced slip ring (the ring that keeps the fore-grip on) is really stong. While this is mostly a good thing and a big step up over CA's previous M15 versions, it makes changing small batteries in the field very difficult if not impossible.

CA's M15A4 series in general is a big step up over their previous versions and as far as stock armalites go they're probably the best. All metal where the real steel version is, the plastic parts where the real steal version is plastic are made of high quality enhanced nylon fiber rather then abs for great texture and feel. Classic Army has a deal with Armalite so you get all the proper markings. Plus that deal also goes to show the quality of the manufacture, Armalite wouldn't put their name on a shoddy product.

Internally the gearbox is reinforced metal and all the gears are metal as well. It fires hotter stock then Tokyo Marui's as well, firing at 300-320 fps where your average TM only fires 280-300 fps.

All in all this is a great starter gun if you can afford it. Because it's all metal you don't have to worry nearly as much about breaking it and you won't get any of the wobble or creaking that is infamous in stock TM M4/M16's. Unfortunately affording it is the biggest problem, they're not cheap. For reference I got my CA M15A4 from the classifieds, upgraded with a bunch of Systema internals to fire 390fps, for $600 shipped which was a great price.

One of the perks of going with an M16/M4 variant is that mags are dead easy to come by and dirt cheap. You can get Star brand mags for like $5 a mag or less, plastic yeah but sturdy none the less (Star is also the only brand that makes realcaps too). Metal mags will run you a fair bit more, $15 to $30 a mag. There's no real reason to go with metal over plastic for mags except looks/realism. Though of course if you're going to go hicap then you might as well get metal ones. As to Brands, TM and CA make good mags. I've heard pretty good stuff about MAG brand mags as well. King Arms not so much, especially for M4/M16 mags. Star is always a good affordable fallback too.

Some people say you need to shell out for batteries, mags, camo, chargers and ammo in the begining. Most of that isn't necessary right off the hop. The stock battery will do you for awhile. Most of the guns come with a hicap (high capacity (300-600 rounds)) mag that will also do for awhile. I do agree that a good charger would be a sound initial investment, but not a total requirement, especially if you plan to get a good battery down the road and don't care if the cheap wall charger fries your stock battery. Camo isn't really required in the beginning either, just some dark clothes. Ammo, yeah obviously a requirement but even good ammo (BB Bastard) only costs $10 for two thousand rounds.

So truely, all you really need to start is the gun, a bag or two of ammo and good eye protection (which will run you between $30 and $50). That said, if you can afford it then it all helps. Camo would cost about $100, a chest rig or vest would cost another $100. A good loadout of mags, even the cheap Star mags, are going to cost at least $50. A good charger is at least another $50, with another $50 for a good battery. A sidearm is another thing that people like to have but isn't really necessary. A decent sidearm would cost you between $250 and $350.

Sidearms aren't really required right away so if you're on a limited budget then hold off on the sidearm for now. If you have the budget for it then what you want in a sidearm depends on two factors (besides cost of course) whether or not full metal is a must and exactly what model you're partial to. Certain manufacturers tend to make certain models better then others. If full metal is a must then the best choice that isn't going to cost you an arm and a leg is probably KJW, especially for the M9 which they do very well. You'll see alot of WE's around, they're cheap and full metal but tend to have problems, especially their 1911 models. KJW has a rep of having mag problems, but I have two KJW pistols and I haven't had any trouble with my mags. If full metal isn't a must then WA or TM would be very good choices.
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Old June 29th, 2009, 04:50   #11
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JG, CA, G&G, TM, ICS... you will not go wrong. Wait for your age verification to go through before you make any final decisions as you are almost guaranteed to save money by buying used (but be wary of people who clearly ask too much for too little product).

Regarding sidearms, much of it boils down to personal preference. The "hi-cappa" pistols appear to have the largest aftermarket following and thus would be the logical suggestion. However, I don't like 1911-based or fictional sidearms (I'm a Glock fan) so I've been running with KSC/KJW and have had no problems at all. Both the ABS and metal versions are top notch and there is a plentiful supply of upgrade components available.
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Old June 29th, 2009, 16:34   #12
Darth Tigger
 
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I notice that everyone is staying away from accuracy.

are they all the same? Is the Carbine as accurate as the long barel?

I am thinking of the M16 instead of the carbine because with bullets, they are more accurate. is this the case in Airsoft?

And for all of you who have told me to get AV'd, My Bad, I should have spelled it out more clearly, the AV is in process, and yes i did meet the AV rep at the game.
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Old June 29th, 2009, 16:46   #13
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In a game environment you're not going to notice a huge difference in accuracy between a stock M16 versus a stock M4. Add in upgrade components like a better hop-up and a tightbore barrel, however, and you're going to see an improvement. In my opinion, people who fuss over infinitesimal increases in accuracy or performance are missing the point of the sport.

If you prefer the look and feel of the M16, get the M16. If you prefer the look and feel of the M4, get the M4. Your choice of AEG is 80% personal preference. My team, for instance, runs with AR's so we can swap magazines in the field and do group purchases for upgrades and replacement parts.

Anyway, there's no rule around here that you can have only one gun... If you can't decide, buy them both.
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Old June 29th, 2009, 17:02   #14
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Not really. At the velocities we're shooting, the extra length is not going to affect accuracy nearly as much as the 4" to 8" reduction is going to improve handling with a carbine or defense sub-carbine, or submachinegun. Remember that maintaining the velocity required for lethality to 500m is not important in airsoft, and close quarters maneuverability is often much more important than long range accuracy when dealing with small hard cover or thick brush.

It's all a matter of opinion, however, and in the long run, go with what you think looks the best and are most comfortable handling. There's very little difference in performance between different models of AEG. Even if there is a major difference, it can be made up for in upgrades quite easily in most cases.

As far as recommendation of what manufacturer to buy from, I LOVE my new G&G. It is one of the best performers among the AEGs I have access to and it's still stock, as well as being a good ~$100 less expensive than the others (CA high-grade B&T, TM, ICS high-grade AK, JG). Also, because I opted for the shorter weapon (7" barrel M4CQD), it's VERY loud and snappy compared to longer AEGs, especially with the large open flash hider that it comes with.

*edit: beaten to accuracy answer
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Old June 29th, 2009, 23:03   #15
Darth Tigger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuro_Neko View Post
You say you like the m16 which we seem to call an m4. That's incorrect. The m4 is the carbine version of the m16, they have a shorter barrel and usually a collapsible stock (though they can have full stocks). Just wanted to clarify that for you before you accidentally bought something you didn't want.
Ya I figured out what threw me. The Rifle I rented at the field had a Carbine barel and a full stock. I have never seen an M4 that didnt have a colapsable stock. Im now told it was a full stock so it could house the battery. Not a concept im used to thinking of. It threw me.
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