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Old May 18th, 2009, 14:07   #1
Dart
 
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New player VS experienced player psychology

AK guys don't take this to heart if you read this. Its nothing you have done wrong its just your dissposition. I understand the push for realism and would like to try to perserve that as much as possible mean while being able to show a few of my friends the sport with out scaring them off.

As I am sure you guys have ran into this problem before I am hoping to draw from some of your experiances. I am new to airsoft as I have stated before. How ever I have the tendacy to go balls deep into hobbies when I find them. I get very passonate about them.

My friends on the other hand... not so much. For the most part my buddies are construction workers, so most of there money goes to Tools/Drinking/Pot *we live in kelowna BC*. I don't do any of these things so I got a bit of extra money to sink into the sport.

I have brought them out to a few AK games *airsoft kelowna*. I was under the impression things were going well, they were just using some clear soft stuff but having fun. If they get shot they did not care and they played well.

How ever for some of the more experianced guys apparently having these guys along was not as enjoyable as I thought it was. Now only a few of them are close friends which I hope to get into the sport, the rest are more aquianteces. The words *paintball attidude* have been used.... I have no idea what that means as I used to be a baller.... I can see a different play style of this to paintball but I mean.... seriously whats that even mean?!

Finally to the point. How do I talk these guys into buying gear if they are not warmly welcomed to the sport. If these guys are willing to come out and play against people in full camo with AEGS, get shot up, ripped up, but still play hard... should that not be enough? I do not understand how people expect someone to come out to the first game fully kitted out.

I have tried to make the games more casual but than I lose the other side of the players.... Stuck between a rock and a hard spot if you ask me.

These are friends I would love them to get into it but if there not welcomed than they won't drop the cash on the gear.... shoot I am even buying my side arm with full expectations of lending it out just to get them to come play. My GF's AEG has been out on the field twice as much as she has... but I can't buy guns for everyone!

Any suggestions? any ways to break the ice? how did you guys get your friends into air soft? How do I deal with the AK guys? I don't want to gain the reputation of *newbie with flashy toys/ don't invite that guy he is just a baller*. Yet I don't want to seem like a snob to my friends who I have knowen for about 8 years.

DRAMA!


*ps* sorry for writing a book!
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Old May 18th, 2009, 14:19   #2
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The lightbulb has to want to change.

It can be frustrating for new players even with all the gear, never mind someone with a clearsoft that's constantly outranged by the other players. Most of the crew in Kelowna runs upgraded AEGs so they can standoff and hit someone with a springer etc.

If your friends also don't have the gear like BDUs, they'll be seen a mile away, and it really won't be much fun at all.

So I guess your best bet is to first build up your kit. Then if you want to bring one or two friends out you can hang your spare goggles on them, give them a set of clothing that doesn't stand out like a sore thumb, and a decent AEG, nothing crazy, a 300+ FPS stocker with a couple spare mags.

I know if one of my friends tried to get me to spend a couple K to try out a game I'd say no dice.

And as a side note the crew in Penticton sometimes run organized games with rentals and so on, an easier way to get your feet wet.
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Old May 18th, 2009, 14:21   #3
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I can't speak for the AK guys (or anyone else), but to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dart View Post
If they get shot they did not care
sounds like a clue.

Many airsofters generally tend to be more milsim minded rather than run-and-gun oriented, and if you suddenly have people bopping around the field shooting stuff and not caring if they get hit, I can see people cursing under their breath since that really kills the experience.
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Old May 18th, 2009, 14:23   #4
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Damn. Well, I guess I'll just start from the begining... So, if I'm not mistaken, you and your friends attend AK games, and the other players seem to "look down" upon your group. From what I gather from these forums, most people play Airsoft for the realism factor. Hell, thats exactly why I decided to switch from paintball to Airsoft, although I was never an avid paintball player. Perhaps the sheer lack of gear is the problem, as you thought. From what I've read, many players don't enjoy playing with other players who show up in blue jeans and a sweatshirt.

Another reason why this might be happening is that often large groups of people tend to ostracize others for many reasons, sometimes because they aren't familiar with the new individuals, other times for petty reasons, such as "He doesn't have the same level of gear", etc. In other instances, it may just be an attempt to "initiate" these new players, in an attempt to see how far they're willing to go to be a part of the sport.

Now these are all conservative explanations, I don't know exactly how bad they were behaving, or for that matter exactly what they were doing. Did you try to talk to the regular players at AK? Maybe certain players are just more fanatical about realism and military simulation than others? Without a personal experience I can't really do any more but fire off suggestions and ask for more information..

In terms of the group of individuals you're attempting to introduce to the sport, how do they act while at the game? Perhaps there was something they did to offend some players? Sometimes people can get offended by simple things, such as a glance that was misinterpretted as a challenge, or a harmless comment which was over heard. From what you've already said, it seems like your group is behaving well, they seem to be getting involved in the games, not to mention that they seem to be a "good sport" about it all. One of the most irritating things when it comes to a sport is when a teammate is not investing any effort into the activity, but from what you've said, it seems like they are trying to be active.

Was there any stand-out event that may have triggered the attitude they received from the other players?

Just trying to help out,

Cheers,

John

EDIT: Took awhile to write that post, sorry for accidentally reitterating the previous posts.
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Last edited by Turnbull; May 18th, 2009 at 14:25.. Reason: Overlap of topics
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Old May 18th, 2009, 14:24   #5
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"Paintballer attitude" generally referes to how paintballers tend to play airsoft like they're playing paintball. Ie, the lack of cohesive tactics, the "spray and pray" mentality, sometimes not calling hits because they're not used to the honor system, the lack of respect for fellow players, etc.

While it is by no means necessary to be fully kitted out for your early games, it is important to recognise that many players enjoy being fully kitted and enjoy playing against people who are. It helps the suspension of disbelief, and help get people "into the gaming atmosphere." What I mean by this is that even a little bit of effort into your kit (like painting a clear gun black, wearing green instead of blue jeans) goes a long, long way in the eyes of your fellow players.

Paintball (or rather speedball) is about putting as much paint down range as possible to hit your opponents. Airsoft is about working with your team to accomplish an objective. Its about not only making the game enjoyable for yourself, but helping to make the game enjoyable for everyone else, too. This is one point a lot of ex-paintballers don't understand right away. Your friends might not care if they get hit, but their teammates might get pissed if all of a sudden 5 guys on their flank just got taken out because they were being careless.
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Old May 18th, 2009, 14:28   #6
Dart
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake View Post
I can't speak for the AK guys (or anyone else), but to me



sounds like a clue.

Many airsofters generally tend to be more milsim minded rather than run-and-gun oriented, and if you suddenly have people bopping around the field shooting stuff and not caring if they get hit, I can see people cursing under their breath since that really kills the experience.
you misunderstood. They called out when they get hit. I meant they did not QQ about it.


Yah I talked to One of the ak members to make sure it was ok, he said it is pretty relaxed so I ended up getting a good sized group together and about 6 ak guys. Than I hear talk that *we did not enjoy playing with them*

The problem I am having is I am trying to convey this to my friends... but I am just coming across as sounding like a ass that has climbed up on a high horse.
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Old May 18th, 2009, 14:32   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalnaren View Post
"Paintballer attitude" generally referes to how paintballers tend to play airsoft like they're playing paintball. Ie, the lack of cohesive tactics, the "spray and pray" mentality, sometimes not calling hits because they're not used to the honor system, the lack of respect for fellow players, etc.

While it is by no means necessary to be fully kitted out for your early games, it is important to recognise that many players enjoy being fully kitted and enjoy playing against people who are. It helps the suspension of disbelief, and help get people "into the gaming atmosphere." What I mean by this is that even a little bit of effort into your kit (like painting a clear gun black, wearing green instead of blue jeans) goes a long, long way in the eyes of your fellow players.

Paintball (or rather speedball) is about putting as much paint down range as possible to hit your opponents. Airsoft is about working with your team to accomplish an objective. Its about not only making the game enjoyable for yourself, but helping to make the game enjoyable for everyone else, too. This is one point a lot of ex-paintballers don't understand right away. Your friends might not care if they get hit, but their teammates might get pissed if all of a sudden 5 guys on their flank just got taken out because they were being careless.
Yah I guess I can understand that. I have had to hold back my urge to bunker someone that is trying to "blind" fire me.... I even run black/white mix ammo so I am forced to aim instead of "watching the ball". as I did in paintball.

The thing is, the three guys that actually played tourny ball with me on my team are NOT the ones that have the paintball attitude... its the ones that have never really played paintball other than rec ball... maybe they are not cut out for this sport.
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Old May 18th, 2009, 14:32   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dart View Post
you misunderstood. They called out when they get hit. I meant they did not QQ about it.


Yah I talked to One of the ak members to make sure it was ok, he said it is pretty relaxed so I ended up getting a good sized group together and about 6 ak guys. Than I hear talk that *we did not enjoy playing with them*

The problem I am having is I am trying to convey this to my friends... but I am just coming across as sounding like a ass that has climbed up on a high horse.
Playing with people that don't give a shit isn't any fun. It's like playing any game with people who intentionally lose and have no desire to win. It very quickly becomes not fun.
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Old May 18th, 2009, 14:58   #9
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This is sort of a strange contrast to my experience with the South Island Rangers. I've only attended one of their games, and I was admittedly not very good, but they were still very friendly towards me. I think I was still a little annoying, but when you make an active effort to follow the advice of the more experienced players, I think they start to realize you're genuinely trying to get into the sport.

My advice? Go ahead and ask the AK guys directly why they didn't enjoy having your friends along, ask how to make it better next time, then convey the message to your friends. Just like any sport, I think the best way to get the players to accept you into the fold is to take initiative and start heeding the wisdom of the more experienced and knowledgeable.
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Old May 18th, 2009, 15:01   #10
Dart
 
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Oh trust me I have asked some of the more experianced players ALOT of questions. Infact I am pretty sure Ktown militia has my msn on Ignore now from all my pestering *hey does this... what if I do.... how many does....* questions

I talked to them here and suggested some green clothing, after some tongue in cheek jokes about wearing there High vis vests they agreed to it. Also offered to spray paint his gun with some of my Black paint.

Last edited by Dart; May 18th, 2009 at 15:09..
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Old May 18th, 2009, 15:28   #11
Mitchell12
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In my experiences with new people. The only ones that ever bothered me were the ones that didn't really care or didn't really try. Nothing against your friends but it seems like that category for them.
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Old May 18th, 2009, 16:20   #12
Brian McIlmoyle
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you can't Make

your friends participate at the level you want them to..

Sounds to me like they a perceived as "tourists" by the regular players.

the investment in gear and guns illustrates a commitment to the activity that will win over veteran players.

You are committed.. buying gear and guns and showing up at games with more "stuff" every time you appear.

If you have a bunch of "clearsoft rangers" in tow you will find yourself lumped in with them and written off as "not serious"

This is a game.. and it is a hobby but people take games and hobbies seriously as they spend a lot of time and money - resources on it.

for many... investing in proper gear and weapons is augmented by going to events with like minded persons.

Having a contingent of "tourists" just there to goof around in no gear and crap guns spoils the experience for many. They may have played to all the rules.. taken every shot received... but it still just does not "feel" right.

Every event is not made for every type of player.. i'm sure if you look around you will find groups of less serious players to just have some fun with, where gear and guns are less important.

You should take your friends to those sorts of games.. some of your friends will likely end up committing more resources to gear and guns and in time you will find you "fit in" more with the more committed players.

good guns and good gear so not make a player good... but it does illustrate a commitment that other players recognize in a first impression basis.
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Old May 18th, 2009, 22:36   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
Having a contingent of "tourists" just there to goof around in no gear and crap guns spoils the experience for many. They may have played to all the rules.. taken every shot received... but it still just does not "feel" right.
That's because when you're creeping through the bush looking out for NVA in your period kit and M16A1 and feeling a slight squish with every step from the water seeped into your jungle boots, face it - you're not in a farmer's field in the prairies on a Saturday anymore. You're in Vietnam and it's 1971. Then some guy with sneakers, a Metallica T-Shirt and a clear AK-47 jumps out of the woods at you, gets shot, then spends his "dead" time 20 feet away loudly talking about jeeps while you try to lay an ambush, it's a serious buzzkill.

That being said, the more "serious" milsim type stuff is sometimes an acquired taste and there's honestly not anything wrong with non-serious plain old trigger time. It just doesn't mesh well with the other end of the spectrum.
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Old May 18th, 2009, 22:46   #14
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The two guys above me hit the nail on the head till it's a dead horse.

The Kelowna crew is more "FilmSim" than "MILSIM" for sure. It's also not a battle of the Gold Card with the highest limit, there's guys out there who have OD gear, & one rifle with a couple highcaps & they'll outplay the big spenders any day of the week.

Your best bet is to make your own bones before you start bringing a crew out, it's way less hassle as you can concentrate on yourself.
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Old May 19th, 2009, 00:47   #15
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I guess I worry to much about what others are thinking. I understand what you mean by that being a total buzz kill.

I talked to both parties and got alot more insight from both of them. *thanks ktown*. The *baller* guys understand that they have to try and look as close to the part as possible. Milsims are of course out of the question for them, and mostly for me until my stuff finally arrives from hong kong *refreshes tracking page again*... nope still not here.

When I talked to some of my friends that came along I was surprised to here that they were actually intimidated when we rolled up and they saw about 5 guys all standing there in full camo with AEGS. kinda felt out of place with there clear soft and tshirts. I can understand that.

I let them know that they are welcome aslong as they atleast wear green and have a militaristic mind of it... like *if I get shot I am dead not just out... gotta protect my squad and watch our flanks*

what do you mean by Filmsim?
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