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Old May 3rd, 2009, 19:38   #31
surebet
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TM has superior fit and finish, trades, material consistency, overall parts.

Sure, you get 280 out of the box, but 25$ for a spring and shims isn't too much to ask.

Enjoy your clones...
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Old May 3rd, 2009, 19:39   #32
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i will hehehe
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Old May 3rd, 2009, 19:51   #33
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TM has superior fit and finish, trades, material consistency, overall parts.

Sure, you get 280 out of the box, but 25$ for a spring and shims isn't too much to ask.

Enjoy your clones...
Try putting a $25, 400 fps spring in your TM (at least a V2 box) and watch your gears shred, the end of the mechbox snap off, etc... Then let's see how much more money you need to sink into it to repair it.

Stock TM = da shiznit
Upgrading a TM = money pit.
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Old May 3rd, 2009, 19:55   #34
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My target for general use guns is sub 350, so yeah, 25$ of parts.
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Old May 3rd, 2009, 20:23   #35
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Each hop-up rubber has a sweet spot for FPS... if you can match or get close to that sweet spot, your range will increase.

Having good parts with high tolerances that mesh together perfectly... that's when you get the best results.

The key to long, consistent range.... is to know what you're doing (Speaking a multitude of Asian languages definitely wouldn't hurt either... There's so much info that isn't well known in Canada!!)
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Old May 3rd, 2009, 20:44   #36
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if you dont have a lot of cash atm and need something that will not fail on you, get TM. JG, while decent, has the ability to fail, as does CA (while they have gotten better, it is still a higher chance when compared to TM). if you dont mind upgrading a gun off the batt, get CA. that being said, if you are planning on getting an AR or more specifically, a G36, then ONLY get CA. IMHO, CA makes THE BEST G36 on the market. Apparently TMs New Type M4s are supposed to be much better and make a great upgradeable platform.
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Old May 3rd, 2009, 20:48   #37
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MY Original TM HK51 bought in back in 91 Just recently overhauled and refurbished inside an out. Before the TM basher comes out how many clones can survived almost 18 years of abuse/crazy springs mod etc?. I still have the original progear mechbox for this aeg aside from a cracked body back in 97 and a progear box upgrade in 99 this has been relatively a stock unit until now.

For your answer to your question, if you want a shoot without problem out of a box performance then I recommend either a TM or King Arms but if you want a riced up version then a CA or G&P or even one of teh mentioned clones like cyma or JG.
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Old May 3rd, 2009, 21:15   #38
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I still think zinc alloy is weak... same with nylon bushings. What is good in a TM is the quality control, R&D and fit and finish, although that isn't true in crunch's case...
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Old May 3rd, 2009, 21:34   #39
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Try putting a $25, 400 fps spring in your TM (at least a V2 box) and watch your gears shred, the end of the mechbox snap off, etc... Then let's see how much more money you need to sink into it to repair it.

Stock TM = da shiznit
Upgrading a TM = money pit.
My 10-year-old, never-failed-to-fire 150,000 round AK shoots 410 on it's original TM gears. There's no difference between v2 gears and v3 gears...

It's not all about parts. It's more about having a competent tech who understands the limitations of an AEG.
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Old May 3rd, 2009, 21:37   #40
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It all depends on what you want. If you want a nice properly trademarked gun, go for the Marui. I personally like Marui because of the true trademarks. Having said that, I am more of a purist and a collector. Classic Army offers guns with alloy and fibre bodies that are durable and competitive in price. Unfortunately, I would rather own a gun that says HK G36C, not CA36C. New CA guns have great internals as well, a far cry from earlier ones.
Take into consideration that Marui builds Airsoft guns that conform to Japanese law. They build Airsoft guns for Airsoft players in Japan. The guns must conform to laws that restrict what kind of muzzle energy is produced and limits what materials can used. Others can comment on how the internals of a Marui cannot withstand some upgrades, but remember, they were not produced to do so.

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Old May 3rd, 2009, 21:40   #41
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My target for general use guns is sub 350, so yeah, 25$ of parts.
It would be nice if it were that simple.

The trouble with a spring upgrade in a TM is that it leads to you having to upgrade other parts to make up for effects of the new spring you installed. Any time you install a higher energy spring than the stock one, you've modified that TM design and that "precision balance" of everything is thrown off.

TM are designed for the Japanese market, where they have a strict fps limit (I believe it's about 320 fps). Their guns all shoot about 280 fps which is under their limit. You can boost their velocity to about that 310-320 fps by installing a bearing spring guide and tightbore barrel. That doesn't require a new spring that increases stress on the internals.

So if you want to get 350 fps, you also have to install metal bushings, which requires reshimming as well. And if you want to preserve your mechbox, a sorbo pad is a great idea as well.

While none of these upgrades are particularly expensive, it requires more than just a $25 spring to upgrade a Marui if you want to maintain its reliability and longevity.

Now that's mostly true of V2 gearboxes. V3 that are also quite popular tend to be a lot more robust. and the shell isn't prone to breakage. So generally, little more than a spring and metal bushings are required to upgrade it significantly without requiring other parts, although generally it's a good idea to install reinforced gears if going past the 360-ish fps mark...
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Old May 4th, 2009, 01:37   #42
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In my opinion Tokyo Mauri make fine classy and reliable Airsoft Weapons.
But they are pricing themselves out of the market a little for a standard plastic bodied Airsoft Weapon.
The Tokyo Mauri Handguns are also becoming rather expensive, You can now buy a reasonable clone AEG for the same price as some of the Handguns.

The Airsoft Weapon market is now offering good - great quality reliable weapons at reasonable prices which come standard with metal bodies and a few extras such as on the King Arms & G&P Airsoft Weapons.

Then you have the clones, Someone else's copy of a Tokyo Mauri etc..
Some of the clones have sorted their shit out and are making reasonable quality weapons for the price you pay.
They still have some issues such as overtightening of the gearbox screws and over greasing the gearbox internals. (like pumping as much grease as they can into the gearbox for what reason I am unsure?)

My experience and personal preference is mainly with Tokyo Mauri & G&P M4 & M16 variants.

I have found that if you upgrade the spring in the V2 Gearbox you should upgrade the gears, piston and also upgrade to a reinforced gearbox.
This will give your Airsoft Weapon a longer life.
Failure to do so will result in chewed up gears, broken teeth on the piston and cracks in your gearbox front end and resulting in more $$$$$$$$$$ spent.
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Old May 4th, 2009, 08:45   #43
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wtf are you talking about? TM is on the higher end of the spectrum with regards to price and initial quality, it is NOT cheap, and hardly comparable to buying from Canadian Tire.
I meant it as a similie, regarding other products from CT, not airsoft.

I suppose overall quality is subjective, but I like to think of reliability and durability as paramount, even before performance, such as FPS. But again, that's just my opinion.
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Old May 4th, 2009, 08:48   #44
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Try putting a $25, 400 fps spring in your TM (at least a V2 box) and watch your gears shred, the end of the mechbox snap off, etc...
425FPS spring in my stock TM mechbox, all it got was a reshimming and a new metal non bearing spring guide. No shredding of gears or snapping of anything. Long story short, its a 4 year old version 2 and its the same original shell, its been opened a few times of maintenance, a few updagrade parts and spring changes over the years. However its ran faithfully from 280FPS all the way to 480FPS and now a days runs at 380FPS.

Now an 10.8V 8000Mah battery in a stock TM fired about about 350BBs before it shredded 6 teeth off the spur gear. Surprisingly enough the stock piston was fine.

People will continue to buy what they see value in or think that there is value in, regardless of brand. We all like what we like for a reason be it the idea of quality, low cost, FPS, body material composition or just whatever. Some people like Rock and Republic, other people like Gap, some people dont care and just want some pants.
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Old May 4th, 2009, 16:52   #45
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Originally Posted by TokyoSeven View Post
425FPS spring in my stock TM mechbox, all it got was a reshimming and a new metal non bearing spring guide. No shredding of gears or snapping of anything. Long story short, its a 4 year old version 2 and its the same original shell, its been opened a few times of maintenance, a few updagrade parts and spring changes over the years. However its ran faithfully from 280FPS all the way to 480FPS and now a days runs at 380FPS.

Now an 10.8V 8000Mah battery in a stock TM fired about about 350BBs before it shredded 6 teeth off the spur gear. Surprisingly enough the stock piston was fine.

People will continue to buy what they see value in or think that there is value in, regardless of brand. We all like what we like for a reason be it the idea of quality, low cost, FPS, body material composition or just whatever. Some people like Rock and Republic, other people like Gap, some people dont care and just want some pants.

Nice. On another note...anyone still play with stock guns? I have an M733 with a tightbore, polycarbonate piston, metal bushings and the original stock spring. She works great and is incredibly reliable. I like to keep things stock just in case I end up getting close to someone...even in outdoor games.
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