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Grand airsoft entry plan & request for clarification

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Old April 11th, 2009, 16:23   #1
Ethernaut
 
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Grand airsoft entry plan & request for clarification

Hello all. Another noob checking in here.

So, I've been lurking around the forums here for a month or so. I've read the appropriate newb FAQs and a whole pile of very helnpfull info on guns and subsequent upgrading. I think I have come up with a pretty good plan for getting my airsoft on. I wanted to check in and see if anyone notices anything im missing.

1) Getting my BDU together

I've basically settled on MARPAT pants and jacket and a pair of ATAC Storm boots. I've put this down as the first item to get done becasue even if I find that airsoft and I do not agree with eachother, I'll still wear the kit out in life. In fact, im in a pair of MARPAT pants right now. My Doc's are getting pretty old and I need new boots anyways, and that side zip on those Storms sure looks mighty enticing


2) Getting Age Verified / Hitting up Panther for a game.

Once I can get dressed somewhat appropriatley, I plan to come out for a game to see if airsoft is anything like I think its gonna be. I don't want to go drop a wad of cash on a tac vest, FRS radio, decent AEG, charger, battery, and a couple of midcaps till and then find out I hate airsoft. I have access to a paintball approved mask and am reasonably sure I can borrow an AEG from a friend so I THINK I'm good to go. I am also guessing that arranging a age verification at a game would probably be the best way for my local verifier ( optix or moto IIRC ) hook up with me without having either of us to intterupt the rest of our lives just to verify that I am infact a 32 year old computer geek with an itch to dump some bbs into others.


3) Get get an AEG

I'm pretty sure I have a handle on the whole "what AEG should I get" thing and the whole upgrade situation.. well, as much as anyone can have a handle on the upgrade thing. I don't want some super leet 400FPS w .20's gun that won't hit anything i'm aiming at or have my shots riccochet of a stray leaf. That being said, I do have one question....

I know that heavier BBs are more accurate and have a better chance of punching thru folieage. Essentally using heavier BBs sacrifices FPS and Rate of Fire for accuracy and penetration. My question is, how does using heavier BBs effect range?

Thanks for reading and I hope to see some of you out there this summer
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Old April 11th, 2009, 16:29   #2
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Heavier BBs don't change rof, only the velocity. And as you already know, heavier BBs will allow for better bush penetration. And wind will have less effect on heavier BBs.

I find you actually can get better range with heavy BBs than light ones. They hold their energy longer than light BBs, therefore can overcome air resistance that would slow and drop a lighter BB. For outdoors, I always use .28, and they give me better range than .2 or .25 in the same gun.

On your other points, it seems like you've got it right. Start with the gear, then borrow / rent a gun for a game to see if you like it. It's nice to see a noob actually doing some research and having a good startup plan rather than wanting to either be a sniper or looking for the best 400 fps gun right from the start.
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Old April 11th, 2009, 16:37   #3
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I think he misinterpreted something saying to have a slightly stronger spring for heavier BBs which would cause a change in ROF.
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Old April 11th, 2009, 16:47   #4
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the decreasing RoF thing was just a bad assumption on my part. Thanks for the correction guys
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Old April 12th, 2009, 00:50   #5
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You should be good to go....

Hit up Op-For or BCAC if you haven't already. Those are the places to get in on the local games and they're the major clubs in Vancouver/Lower Mainland.

There should be someone there at the field to verify you.... I believe that there may be one person who works at Daves Surplus who does AV too.... I'm not 100% sure but you could probably call them up and ask (I've heard the name "Colin" thrown around a few times but I'm not 100% sure that's the guys name or even if he does AV).

For me personally my gundoc told me he believes my spring may be an M110 so I'm getting like 360-380 in my gun and I find that .25's are my favourite to run with. I used some .28's today and there is a difference but I'd say unless you're shooting above 375 then don't bother with .28's. This is my personal opinion but do your thing and find whats right for you.

Range actually goes slightly up with heavier BB's (to a certain point, with a certain speed) but you run the risk of people doing the "matrix thing" and dodging your BB's if they're going too slow.

Also talk to Optix about getting a "sampler pack" of the BB's he's selling. Just pick up a bag of each .20's, .25's and .28's and test them all out and see what you like.
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Old April 12th, 2009, 05:14   #6
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.25g is probably still the best compromise. However, if your gun ends up with a tightbore, it may favor certain brands over others. For instance, KSC perfects have a slightly smaller diameter than a higher grade Japanese BB (Azathoth gave them to me... I forgot the brand), thus, those will go through my madbull 6.03 while the more expensive ones won't. Try them all out.
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Old April 12th, 2009, 10:06   #7
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Start with 0.25's for outdoors...you'll drop about 30fps from 0.20's.

Try a bag of 0.28's...the drop from 0.25's is not too bad.

(for the anal retentive nit-picks, there's some generalizations below to get the point across...your personal results may vary)

It's not about maximum range...it's about your effective range. At the absolute furthest you can shoot with 0.20's (i.e. before your BB's hit the ground in front of your target and they laugh at you), your "group" of shots will be about the size of person...not the best for reliable shooting/hits. Imagine having to launch a 30rnd burst at someone just to hit them...your mags won't last very long that way. To get more reliable hits....you have to get closer...until you can reliably hit someone with 1-2 shots. With 0.20's, this will be fairly close.

Now switch to 0.25's...almost like magic at your groups will shrink. Instead of shooting "minute of man" you're shooting "minute of chest". The absolute furthest might be a bit closer...but instead of launching 30 shots to get a hit, you're shooting a short 5rnd burst to get a hit. To reliably hit someone with 1-2 shots...you don't need to move up as close as with 0.20's. Although your maximum absolute range may have decreased a bit, your maximum effective range has greatly improved.

With 0.28's and 0.30's...your shots will go straighter and your hits will be more predictable. They carry more energy when they hit...so you opponent will feel/hear your shot better and call their hit. Extreme long range hits from light bbs feel like nothing and with a lot of gear you may not even hear it.

So why not use the heaviest BBs you can get? Because your range does decrease and the bbs are slowing down. There's a 60-70fps drop between 0.20s and 0.30s...and if you were shooting 0.43s your bbs would be going really slowly (i.e. if someone saw you shooting at them...they could "matrix" doge the shot without too much effort (falling to the ground is easy).

Best of luck

Tys
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Old April 12th, 2009, 18:34   #8
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That's something I've been wondering about myself. Most fields have a set FPS limit such as 400FPS for outdoors but do they have any force limits? For example is there anything stopping you from building a gun designed to shoot .30s at 400FPS?
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Old April 12th, 2009, 18:49   #9
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At all games, they chrony with .20's. You gun has to be under 400 FPS with .20's
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Old April 12th, 2009, 18:52   #10
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Ahh ok, that makes sense. Thanks
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Old April 12th, 2009, 18:58   #11
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Originally Posted by yuhaoyang View Post
.25g is probably still the best compromise. However, if your gun ends up with a tightbore, it may favor certain brands over others. For instance, KSC perfects have a slightly smaller diameter than a higher grade Japanese BB (Azathoth gave them to me... I forgot the brand), thus, those will go through my madbull 6.03 while the more expensive ones won't. Try them all out.
For me, KSC / Velocity Arms jam in every one of my guns that has a 6.03 tightbore. Don't have an issue with regular barrels or 6.04 for some reason though. The only BBs I can confirm work flawlessly in all my guns are BB Bastard. Your mileage may vary though.
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Old April 13th, 2009, 03:27   #12
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At all games, they chrony with .20's. You gun has to be under 400 FPS with .20's
You know, that is good information to have. It's pretty obvious from reading various threads on ASC that a 400FPS is a pretty safe assumption for game legal guns on Canadian feilds. This is the first time that i've see someone say that it had to be 400FPS with 0.20s. I mean, its been mentioned that you get tested with 0.20s and one can read between the lines, but its best have it spelled out. Good post Erennert
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Old April 13th, 2009, 03:39   #13
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You know, that is good information to have. It's pretty obvious from reading various threads on ASC that a 400FPS is a pretty safe assumption for game legal guns on Canadian feilds. This is the first time that i've see someone say that it had to be 400FPS with 0.20s. I mean, its been mentioned that you get tested with 0.20s and one can read between the lines, but its best have it spelled out. Good post Erennert
Really, we go by joules. That's energy of the BB.

So 0.20's at 400fps is 1.49 joules, and that's the limit (for certain fields). You can use any weight of BB you want but your fps and weight mix has to be 1.49 joules or under.

We just go by fps with 0.20's to make it easy, because chronometers read FPS and that's the easiest thing to measure.
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Old April 13th, 2009, 03:42   #14
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Thank-you, and it's a very important part of Airsoft. Many people, if not all players will definitely not like the fact that a newcomer is coming in with a hot AEG. Most-likely the field admin will not let you play, and all that money for a new spring ect is gone to waste.

EDIT: Also what Styrak said is true, but can't think of one field near Langley that doesn't chrono with .20g.
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Old April 13th, 2009, 10:28   #15
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Someone should also add that upgrading to higher speeds requires more modification and upgrades.

Some motors won't be able to pull back tighter springs, because of the tension. So lets say you got an M170 or something. Well chances are you'll need a high torque motor, and a ton of other upgrades (gears, reinforced mechbox, etc.) just to get it to all work.

Remember 400 FPS is a limit not a goal.

Here's the rules for FPS limits at Op-For (OUTDOOR GAMES):

MAX 330FPS with 0.20g BBs for handguns.
MAX 330FPS with 0.20g BBs for STOCK AEG. 10FT engagement distance.
MAX 400FPS with 0.20g BBs for FULL AUTO AEG. 20FT engagement distance.
MAX 440FPS with 0.20g BBs for SEMI AUTO AEG. 60FT engagement distance.
MAX 500FPS with 0.20g BBs for BOLT ACTION SNIPER RIFLES. 80FT engagement distance. (MANDITORY SIDEARM)

NOTE:Inform the administrators if you are using a weapson over 400FPS. Weapons shooting over the above listed limits will be removed from play.
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