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Old February 23rd, 2009, 14:58   #16
Brian McIlmoyle
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Long Games

It is still possible to have breaks and safe areas..

But they would have to be part of the scenario. For example units could be rotated out to rear areas that are goggle off areas.

You could make it that in order to maintain your safe rear area where people can rest and eat goggles off ( and recharge batts and such) your side would have to occupy and hold a forward area..

Basically you would have to hold the line.. if your in battle forward area fell then your safe zone then becomes a battle zone .. and you can no longer go goggles off.

fighting to keep your safe zone safe could be a significant objective .. particularly if you could only receive resupply through the safe zone.. loosing the safe zone could be akin to having your supply lines cut.
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Old February 23rd, 2009, 15:04   #17
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In Manitoba we have held a "Survivor" game for the past couple of years, sometimes the duration has been only 3 days where as other times it was a week.

The idea was that a small group of players "The Survivors" would deploy out into the field and anytime during the 3-7 days people could come out and hunt them 24/7.

On another note, you need to get a very specific type of player to a game that is intended to run for 24 hours+. If even a small number of people decided to leave mid game it results in a sub par game for the people who do remain(throws off team balance and becomes one sided very quickly). This is the exact reason why the last couple of years the Keystone Strike (Which is intended to be a 24 hour game) has always fallen short. This year in place of Keystone Strike we are running Operation Cold Front and it is on an invitation only basis to ensure that we get the quality of players so the game can be played as intended.

Last edited by paranoid987; February 23rd, 2009 at 15:13..
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Old February 23rd, 2009, 15:07   #18
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Wow, that sounds pretty interesting, paranoid. Certainly balances out people who want to camp out and people who don't.
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Old February 23rd, 2009, 15:31   #19
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Seems really interesting and paranoid's concept is neat.

Now I know that being underage I'm not myself nothing more than a chairsofter, but I think that such game should not aim for the more players possible BUT for experienced and motivated players, else it would be boring with people complaining, getting demotivated, etc.

I've recently seen a video of a France-Belgium game held over ~48 hours with NPC playing residents of the area that could attack both sides with "rocks" (made of foam) just to disturb them but could even 'kill' them. This makes a much more realistic experience, in my opinion.

Also, what Brian suggested with the "Hold your lines, you have a safe zone and supplies. Don't hold them, you don't..." That's something hard to setup as it everyone would need a radio so they know if the safe zone isn't safe anymore but that would rock.

And complete teams separation:
-Regular infantry

Recce/Specops and sharpshooters could act in small teams and go behind ennemy lines (but then the safe zone thing would be screwed...) to observe and report or destroy assets...

I won't explane much as I'm sure you all got the point of making a real milsim instead of just a big skirmish.
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Old February 23rd, 2009, 15:39   #20
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Sounds like an AWSOME idea to me :P
Originally Posted by ThunderCactus View Post
Like seriously dude. The incredible lack of common sense in the question could be scientifically investigated for evidence of a black hole.
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Old February 23rd, 2009, 15:42   #21
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If you wanna see what long period/immersion based game is all about..check out
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Old February 23rd, 2009, 15:52   #22
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My two cents

Now this is a great idea, although I'd like to have a few more games under my belt before undertaking something of that scale. But, for the sake of playing devil's advocate here, I've got some suggestions for you, if you're serious about trying to get something of this magnitude going.

First, as many other posters have mentioned, it would require that you have some sort of standard to be met in order to weed out the "serious" players from the "non-serious" players. This would not only ensure that you've got dedicated players, but also the organizers wouldn't have to worry as much about injuries and the safety of those involved. This could be a two-tiered requirement of say, atleast 3 games already played, and confirmed by the organizer of said games, as well as a standard of gear required. By standard of gear, Im thinking: Must have a radio (for organizational ease), full kit (Including camo, vest, gun, goggles...blah, blah...) as well as the appropriate camping arrangements.

Second, I think you would benefit from having a team of organizers, so that you don't have to take the full brunt of organizing everything yourself. Perhaps other experienced vets in your area could help out, get some planning done. As a side note, you could appoint two of these people to be "team leaders", or whatever you'd like to call them, which would be responsible for helping enforce rules, scenarios, etc... while in the field. This would also help you organize the entire scenerio better.

I like the idea of not having safe zones, as it adds an aspect of realism to the game. As a possible answer to the concerns over always having goggles on, perhaps you could enforce a rule that inside tents, etc, you can take goggles off. To add to that, you might want to think about enforcing a rule that if someone storms into a tent, those people are "hit" so theres no point blank firing going on against people with no goggles on. Just a thought, but it would need more ironing out.

As for the layout of the scenario, it could be something similar to a "take and hold". By this I mean the objectives of both sides is to infiltrate the enemy encampment, seize control of it, and hold it for X hours. This could be done by assigning a "base command" building/area, which is what would need to be held for the X hours.

If I think of anything else, I'll post it up, but I think you should take some of these things into consideration.
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Old February 23rd, 2009, 15:56   #23
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2 days game need to have organised base for players to sleep in. From experience, once it's dark, there is not much action going on.

If the organisers provide shelter on the field (large tent, fire...) it can be very fesable.

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Old February 23rd, 2009, 16:04   #24
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As you said, not much. But having dedicated (and equipped) players ready to go scout or plan a surprise attack during the night, while some opponents are patrolling their area, would be something that adds a lot to the realism. A continuous op instead of two consecutive days makes a huge difference.
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Old February 23rd, 2009, 16:10   #25
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Yeah, Comanche's got a point there. It would make it much easier to be engulfed in the scenario. But to stress a point, I really, honestly think this would require everyone to have a radio. Without that, it will not be possible.
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Old February 23rd, 2009, 17:49   #26
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Originally Posted by paranoid987 View Post
On another note, you need to get a very specific type of player to a game that is intended to run for 24 hours+.
Yes, quite true. A prime example would be the WestCan series of events that happened in 2002 through 2004. The last Edmonton game started out with just over 100 players and the number that followed through to the next day was about 40 if I recall (or someone here can correct me).
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Old February 23rd, 2009, 18:10   #27
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It was over 150 to start. I think most were still there at the end. I think I have some group pictures still somewhere.

While there have been 24hr games in Canada (one or two a year), these are not for everyone. I've seen several players all hyped about 24hr games, then can't even pace themselves for a 10-12 hr one. Player who do well at these games are either experienced enough to know how to pace themselves and when to rest/sleep and/or military personnel who are conditioned for it.
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Last edited by Darklen; February 23rd, 2009 at 18:14..
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Old February 23rd, 2009, 18:19   #28
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If you are worried about the loss of a supply line / rear safe area, when the front falls an admin could signal via air horn. That way if any players had radio problems they would still know to suit up for action. Also for the storming a tent problem, would dummy grenades work?
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Old February 23rd, 2009, 18:19   #29
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I would not dream of discouraging someone from running something like this, but you need to take into account many things besides just the game. Planning it as a "regular game day, only longer and with porta-potties" would fall somewhat short.

The need for planning extends to the players, too. If you have trouble getting through a few hours in the field without needing a break to go back to your car for something, you might find it a challenge just to be in the bush all day (nevermind actually sleeping there).

In my experience: when it comes to long milsim-focused games everyone wants to try it, almost no one actually has the energy (or stones in some cases) to get through it.

But everyone should try it at least. It's a great [learning] experience and as mentioned, I wouldn't dream of discouraging anyone from planning or attending such an event.
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Old February 23rd, 2009, 18:25   #30
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As you already have contact with LT.Poncho, ask him about the OP:CT evets he ran back in the days. 26 hour events with organized on and off field sleeping areas. Each teams base was set up with people bringing their our tents etc, with a strick googles on at all times rule. The only time that your goggles could come off is while you were in your tent with the "door" zipped secure. Tents were not to be intentionally targeted by enemy fire, so goggles had to be worn while you were cooking, etc.

There was also the off field safe zone, which held the usual safe area rules such as barrel plugs on, mags out, etc... This allowed players a safe haven to relax and replenish their supplies that they did not want to drag out onto the field (spare rifles, parts, tech tools, coolers, spare clothes). Each "off field" safe zone was at oppisite ends of the field, which help keep intel on how many enemy forces (for example) were on or off the field off the record. During the second OP:CT, each base was set up with only one safe zone....the on field safe zone. This was a strick no fire zone, no shots in, no shots out. It worked, but with the large amount of new players getting into the sport, I'd advise avoiding this type of set up. The other problem with this set up was that we had to walk the entire length of the game field and right past the American base camp to get to our cars.

As for the potential night operations during these two events.....oh mann, just as RUGGER and Stuart about the incident with the night shift security detail guys whom Stu had provided NVGs to...what a laugh. Then there are the raids on the bases followed by morning radio calls from game command asking if we had "acquired and American equipment" through out the night. Boots, AEGs, and almost teh American flag were borrowed from right out of the American base. And then there were the Recce guys who took turns sleeping on overwatch of the enemy bases, the snipers such as Raven (team Bad Karma) who kept tabs on the comings and goings out of our base all night, reporting everything back to the American CO.

There is a lot of potential in a multipul day event, but you'd need to hold it on a very large field in order to keep it from turning into just a really long scrim.

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