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Old February 7th, 2009, 13:24   #16
Kuro_Neko
 
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If you could state how much you're willing to spend on the various parts of kit we would be able to advise you better.

For $200, the best you could manage is Aftermath stuff. Both the Broxa (full stock MP5) and the Kraken (AK47) are decent bargain basement guns, about $160 or so each. Stay away from Aftermath's Kirenex or Knight (both M4 variants) and the Lycaon (collapsible stock MP5) though, not a good rep.

If you're willing to go up to $300 you could get a JG. Yeah JG's are China clones but they're getting quite respectable nowadays. JG's M4 runs about $290. You could even get one of the G&G cansoft (clear receiver) M4's for about $340. G&G is the cheapest of the midgrade guns. $400-$450 would get you an ICS or a G&P which are higher end midgrade guns.

As several people have already stated if you can afford it highgrade guns such as Tokyo Marui or Classic Army are the way to go. They're going to run you $600-$700. Though if the M4/M16 style is what you want then I'd recommend staying away from stock TM's, the barrel wobble and creaking are pretty bad on the stock TM M4/M16's.

I did extensive research and settled on the Tactical Carbine version of the Classic Army M15A4 as my first gun. If an Armalite is what you're looking for then I think it's the best of all possible versions. You have the shortened M4 carbine barrel, which makes you less likely to smack your barrel off something when turning quickly, combined with the full stock which houses a large battery. Small batteries don't have near the run time of a large battery, not to mention that the reinforced slip ring (the ring that keeps the fore-grip on) is really stong. While this is mostly a good thing and a big step up over CA's previous M15 versions, it makes changing small batteries in the field very difficult if not impossible.

CA's M15A4 series in general is a big step up over their previous versions and as far as stock armalites go they're probably the best. All metal where the real steel version is, the plastic parts where the real steal version is plastic are made of good quality. Classic Army has a deal with Armalite so you get all the proper markings. Plus that deal also goes to show the quality of the manufacture, Armalite wouldn't put their name on a shoddy product.

Internally the gearbox is reinforced metal and all the gears are metal as well. It fires hotter stock then Tokyo Marui's as well, firing at 300-320 fps where your average TM only fires 280-300 fps.

All in all this is a great starter gun if you can afford it. Because it's all metal you don't have to worry nearly as much about breaking it and you won't get any of the wobble or creaking that is infamous in stock TM M4/M16's. Unfortunately affording it is the biggest problem, they're not cheap. For reference I got my CA M15A4 from the classifieds, upgraded with a bunch of Systema internals to fire 390fps, for $600 shipped which was a great price.

One of the perks of going with an M16/M4 variant is that mags are dead easy to come by and dirt cheap. You can get Star brand mags for like $5 a mag or less, plastic yeah but sturdy none the less (Star is also the only brand that makes realcaps too). Metal mags will run you a fair bit more, $15 to $30 a mag. There's no real reason to go with metal over plastic for mags except looks/realism. Though of course if you're going to go hicap then you might as well get metal ones. As to Brands, TM and CA make good mags. I've heard pretty good stuff about MAG brand mags as well. King Arms not so much, especially for M4/M16 mags. Star is always a good affordable fallback too.

Some people say you need to shell out for batteries, mags, camo, chargers and ammo in the begining. Most of that isn't necessary right off the hop. The stock battery will do you for awhile. Most of the guns come with a hicap (high capacity (300-600 rounds)) mag that will also do for awhile. I do agree that a good charger would be a sound initial investment, but not a total requirement, especially if you plan to get a good battery down the road and don't care if the cheap wall charger fries your stock battery. Camo isn't really required in the beginning either, just some dark clothes. Ammo, yeah obviously a requirement but even good ammo (BB Bastard) only costs $10 for two thousand rounds.

So truely, all you really need to start is the gun and a bag or two of ammo. That said, if you can afford it then it all helps. Camo would cost about $100, a chest rig or vest would cost another $100. A good loadout of mags, even the cheap Star mags, are going to cost at least $50. A good charger is at least another $50, with another $50 for a good battery. A sidearm is another thing that people like to have but isn't really necessary. A decent sidearm would cost you between $250 and $350.

Hope this helps you. If you have any other questions I'd be happy to pass on my (admittedly limited) experience. Feel free to PM me.

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Old February 7th, 2009, 14:02   #17
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get an AK if you want a rifle so bad. Long barrel, V3 mechbox, rigid design, not much more you could ask for.
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Old February 7th, 2009, 15:51   #18
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Thanks Kuro_Neko for the very long post. To be honest, my budget for a rifle is around $200 USD so I'm probably not able to Tokyo Marui, or a Classic Army. I am able to get a G&G for around $270 USD Shipped ($329.99 or something CAD from Velocity Arms) and I'm thinking that it might be a good buy, however I'm thinking of opting out for a TF16 still as BORDENSNIPER's review on it says that it's pretty good for the price and odds are that the parts used for it would cost more separate. For BB's I was actually planning on ordering some black Matrix BB's in bulk from the states and having it arrive whenever it arrives seeing as how parts, bb's, batteries, etc can cross the border.

Appreciate your opinion Skladfin however I'm trying to stay away from AK's. Chances are AK's are great rifles and all, but out of personal preference I'm going to stay away from them for now.
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Old February 7th, 2009, 15:57   #19
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Personally if the choice was between the TF16 and a G&G, I'd go G&G everytime. As to ammo, go with BB Bastards. In either case, I'd stay way from black bb's, at least at first. Until you get used to the way your gun's trajectories behave you'll need the visible white bb's to know where you're hitting. Yeah, walking your fire onto a target isn't very realistic unless you're using at least a squad support weapon (even then tracers would only be every fifth round or so) but bb's don't travel in a straight line nearly as well as bullets.

Kuro_Neko

edit: Shipping from the States is murder as well. So whatever bb's you settle on, you'd be much better off finding a local source.

Last edited by Kuro_Neko; February 7th, 2009 at 15:59..
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Old February 7th, 2009, 17:29   #20
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Hm. The biggest reason I'm tempted by the TF16 is because it's $140 USD as opposed to double the price at $280 USD for the G&G. G&G is sold for $329.99 CAD or something, but I have USD availible so I'm going to have to convert, and Paypal's wonderful exchange rate that jips you everytime.....Not fun.
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Old February 7th, 2009, 17:31   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryukishen View Post
Hm. The biggest reason I'm tempted by the TF16 is because it's $140 USD as opposed to double the price at $280 USD for the G&G. G&G is sold for $329.99 CAD or something, but I have USD availible so I'm going to have to convert, and Paypal's wonderful exchange rate that jips you everytime.....Not fun.
You get what you pay for. The G&G is much better quality than the TF gun. Keep that in mind.
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Old February 7th, 2009, 17:37   #22
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It is my honest opinion that if you can only afford ~$200USD right now, don't buy anything. Save up instead until you have enough for a JG or better. They're worth the higher price. In addition, the TF16 uses the old TM body tabs design to lock the upper receiver into the lower. Those things have a rep for breaking easily, especially with a plastic body. And in the long run, the amount of money you'd need to spend to bring a TF16 up to a JG or G&G standard (i.e. metal content) will likely be significantly more than simplying buying a JG or G&G.
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Old February 7th, 2009, 18:05   #23
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So far looking at the Velocity Arms G&G GR16 V4. It looks nice, then I showed it to a few veteran friends in the states and they basically went "What's with the rails? It looks partially metal, but it's mounted on plastic so you'll have to becareful. Also, what's with the Zinc Gearbox? And 300fps shooting .2g out of the box is a bit low" so odds are I'm thinking of getting a TF16, and turn it into a secondary/loaner/project gun later on once I get more experience.

That and Come on AV Peoples! I need you to respond so I can get AV'd!! *shakes Frank in particular*
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Old February 7th, 2009, 18:06   #24
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TF16's are retarded crap,do not buy it period

ordering bb's from the USA is also not a good idea, the weight makes the shipping prices high, by the time you convert the usd price and add shipping, you are paying more than you would be paying for something in country.

If you are in scarborough, go to Defcon Paintball at VP and McNicoll and buy BB Bastards from them, best quality and it is local so no shipping.

oh and don't buy that shitty tf16, get age verified and buy from the classifieds here on asc.
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Old February 7th, 2009, 18:10   #25
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TF16's are retarded crap,do not buy it period

ordering bb's from the USA is also not a good idea, the weight makes the shipping prices high, by the time you convert the usd price and add shipping, you are paying more than you would be paying for something in country.

If you are in scarborough, go to Defcon Paintball at VP and McNicoll and buy BB Bastards from them, best quality and it is local so no shipping.

oh and don't buy that shitty tf16, get age verified and buy from the classifieds here on asc.
Biggest problem with getting age verified is that I'm probably going to have to wait and sit it out until TAC-09 or TTAC3 or whatever you want to call it, then get age verified there if possible. However, I'm looking into getting a gun now as opposed to later. However, would it be possible to pick up a gun at the Airsoft Convention? If it's suggested I guess I could go that route and pull funds out now.
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Old February 7th, 2009, 18:35   #26
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There should be some G&G's available at TAC-09 (not necessarily Frank, but there'll be others there selling similar stuff), and there'll also be several Age Verifiers on hand.

As for your American friends, I don't think they know what they're talking about.

In Canada, many G&G use a transparent, plastic lower receiver for legal reasons. The comment on zinc mechbox is.... Confusing. Since the vast majority of mechboxes are zinc alloy of some sort.
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Old February 7th, 2009, 18:38   #27
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There should be some G&G's available at TAC-09 (not necessarily Frank, but there'll be others there selling similar stuff), and there'll also be several Age Verifiers on hand.

As for your American friends, I don't think they know what they're talking about.

In Canada, many G&G use a transparent, plastic lower receiver for legal reasons. The comment on zinc mechbox is.... Confusing. Since the vast majority of mechboxes are zinc alloy of some sort.
I think the comment on the gearbox was pointed more towards the fact that I heard Zinc is a crap metal and that most of their gearboxes I believe are Reinforced Steel or something.

I'm guessing that I might end up going to TAC-09 for AV and shopping instead of getting the TF16 now. But that TF16 is still tempting.
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Old February 7th, 2009, 18:42   #28
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I think the comment on the gearbox was pointed more towards the fact that I heard Zinc is a crap metal and that most of their gearboxes I believe are Reinforced Steel or something.
Considering that most mechboxes are zinc alloy, you've been misled and your low opinion of zinc alloy mechboxes is overblown.

Quote:
I'm guessing that I might end up going to TAC-09 for AV and shopping instead of getting the TF16 now. But that TF16 is still tempting.
It's always better handling something in person. I mean, do you have any really valid reason to get a gun within the next 2 weeks besides impatience? I think waiting is definitely the better option here.
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