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Please help me buy guns for my kids and me...

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Old January 1st, 2009, 14:34   #1
cyberdragon
 
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Please help me buy guns for my kids and me...

Happy New Year!

First of all, I know my topic is a little vague, but please bear with me as I am trying to come to grips with a lot of new concepts regarding this sport. I’ve done a lot of reading on this site and googled to my heart’s content but too much info sometimes is not much better than ‘not enough’.

I’m hoping to get some advice from you, experienced players.

Let me start from the beginning. My son came to me recently with this new trip of his: Airsoft! After doing a bit of research on this site, my first position was “Hell no!”

I have since then changed my stance and am allowing him and his brother to play. Not only that, they got me hooked up!

We play in my backyard and in the forest behind my house. We live in a nice secluded area of St-Marc-sur-Richelieu and have access to this nice private patch of wood. Our games are mostly casual and fun. Distance is usually not that much of an issue but reliability still is important. I believe we can live with 200ish FPS guns but they have to shoot when we expect them to.

One of my boys bought a Crosman Pulse R70 at Canadian Tire and we soon found the error of our ways. We brought that back and we went to SAIL where he got a DPMS A17 R.I.S. & Pistol Kit. This gun seems to perform much better but he is still having issues with the limited battery charge and sometimes the gun won’t fire – nothing comes out.

My other son got himself a Crosman Pulse R72 which seems to be the best bang for the buck so far.

We purchased bio-degradable .2g BBs, we’re about to get some good goggles and I’d like to get myself a fairly decent gun.

After giving you a bit of background, here are my questions:

1) Given a limited 100-150CAD$ budget, would you say Sam made a good decision to buy the DPMS A17 Kit?

2) Given a limited 100-150CAD$ budget, would you say Thom made a good decision to buy the Crosman R72 Pulse gun?

3) Is it normal that we have to turn the wheel after almost every shot to get a steady shooting performance with those guns?

4) Should we anticipate issues with our guns when playing at -15 Celcius? Would the battery be less reliable? Would the guns not fire sometimes?

5) Shootsoft.ca and buyairsoft.ca seem expensive to me for what they offer. Can I get much better guns from this site with a 100$ to 200$ budget once I get age verified or is everything here usually higher end products in the 300+ price range ?

6) Is the Age Verification process efficient at all? 2 of the 3 guys I tried could not be reached (bounced email and full PM inbox, nothing to do with the New Year). Heck, all I need is for one guy in authority to get on Skype with me, see my ugly 40-year old mug on camera and I’m good. No one could ever mistake me for a 15-year old kid. 

I think that’s about it for now. I really appreciate the time you’ll take to answer my questions and provide advice.

Cheers!
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Old January 1st, 2009, 14:51   #2
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Hey, Fox_111, if you see this, please PM me. I just saw you were online recently and you're one of the guys I was trying to get in touch with for age verification.

Thanks!
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Old January 1st, 2009, 15:05   #3
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If your just gonna run around your backyard and shoot at each other with your kids and have a happy time with the famliy. Then yes your purchase was good, but if you're trying to get into the military simulations and big games with other people then no your guns do not stack up to the quality of their guns. For example your guns cost roughly $100-150, their guns cost roughly $400-500 depending on what make + they usually throw up to and possibly more than $200 in upgrades on one single gun.

And as for the wheel no you dont have to turn it every single shot, and it's called a hop-up. You adjust until the point where the bb's fly out of the gun straight then leave it. And since many variables can effect the flight of a bb, it's smart to adjust everytime you play outdoors.

There wont be many issues when playing in the -15 degree weather. The main ones are just watch out for the battery and the gearbox.

Also I know how everyone is environmentally friendly but dont use bio-bb's they have a tendency to shatter in the gun, plus it can shatter on impact resulting in a spray of bb fragments.
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Old January 1st, 2009, 15:09   #4
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To answer you questions about the guns you already have, typically the lowend guns seem like a good deal for someone just getting into the sport and on a budget, they soon break and typically can not be repaired. So for the $100-$150 that was spent, they're awfully expensive paperweights. Enjoy them while they last.

Second, Age Verification must be done in person. AV over a webcam, via email or fax is not possible. The Age Verifier must ensure you are who you say you are and your ID is real. The systrem is designed this way to prevent abuse as much as possible. In lue of a legally binding system, which would have to be government madated, and run (probably horribly too boot) this is the best there is.
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Old January 1st, 2009, 15:09   #5
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First of all, please don't play in public woods. Anyone could be passing through and catch a BB in the eye. Also... buy goggles first thing. Your eyes and the eyes of your sons are something you should make a first priority.

You will find 99% of guns for sale here are $300+. Canadian Tire/Walmart (Clearsoft) guns are frowned upon due to their poor poor quality and performance. Airsoft is an expensive hobby, but a great one if you play it safe.

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Old January 1st, 2009, 15:14   #6
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are you talking about the wheel on the bottom of the magazine?> because if so that is what is pushing the bbs up its a hi-cap magazine and needs to be manually wound every 20 or so shots
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Old January 1st, 2009, 15:25   #7
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OK Let me try and answer as many questions of yours as possible. Bear in mind that although I've been here for a while I'm still technically a "noob" since I haven't gone to that many games.

1 and 2. No. Simply said although they were cheap and perform fairly well there were better guns that you could have gotten (which would have required Age Verification) but without AV there was a better option and that would have been the Aftermath Kraken AK-47 (would have run ~$170-190 though).

3. You're using a Hi-cap ("High Capacity" Magazine) and I don't have experience with those so I can't answer anything about it really but from the videos I see it looks like people are constantly cranking the wheel while firing. For most of us though we prefer using low or mid-caps because of the "realism" aspect.

4. Yes. The battery would be prone to "freezing" and you'll get less performance out of the battery because more charge is required to crank the spring back. Really it's a no-no to play in anything below 0 because of the extra stress being put on the gun and not to mention some gearboxes don't like cold weather and you'll end up getting cracked pistons and destroyed guns which are only salvagable for parts afterwards.

5. For the most part (maybe 80% of the time) guns in the classifieds will tend to be more expensive but they usually include upgraded parts and packages including mags, loaders, batteries, optics, cases, vests, etc.

Example: My M4 was $450 for body, battery, optics it was upgraded and performs nicely. I've seen some guns go for up to $1500+ depending on whats included in the package.

You will however definitely find some guns that go for Sub $300 although they tend to be rarer and don't include too many things in the package. That being said there are retailers who do have NIB Sub $350 guns available and they should perform nicely for the price.

6. AV sometimes is hard to do I understand but it's well worth it. I personally didn't wait too long for mine but I have heard of some people having conflicting schedules and not being able to get it done but the other option is to go to a game, get a loaner and do your AV then because there is usually a Verifier at most games. Sorry but it's policy that the Age Reps do have to see you in person even if you couldn't be mistaken for a 15 year old in any way. They will also be happy to answer any questions you may have about airsoft.
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Old January 1st, 2009, 16:33   #8
cyberdragon
 
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Folks, thanks for the multiple and quick responses.

I'm surprised to hear about the bio degradable BB's but it's good advice.

We play with goggles but they're not good enough so we'll upgrade.

The wheel I was talking about was not the Hop-up but the magazine wheel, so I guess the answer is yes, we should expect to be turning it often.

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From L473ncy
6. AV sometimes is hard to do I understand but it's well worth it. I personally didn't wait too long for mine but I have heard of some people having conflicting schedules and not being able to get it done but the other option is to go to a game, get a loaner and do your AV then because there is usually a Verifier at most games. Sorry but it's policy that the Age Reps do have to see you in person even if you couldn't be mistaken for a 15 year old in any way. They will also be happy to answer any questions you may have about airsoft.
Yeah. That might prove to be a problem depending on my work schedule. I often have to travel to the US. My 3 boys play hockey. I'm running a business and managing a property in Florida. I just don't know if I could find some time to go thru AV. There seem to be limited verifiers in my area as well. Then again, I don't think anyone here is quite ready to purchase the 300$+ guns so we may not need to go thru that yet.

Once again, I appreciate your answers and comments.
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Old January 1st, 2009, 21:21   #9
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Aftermath products, paticularly the Kraken, are a decent choice for a inexpensive first time gun. They usually run about $170ish depending on the retailer. Though they may actually shoot alittle harder then you'd want at around 370 fps.

Most of us want higher fps rather then lower due to longer range and the ability to use heavier ammo to resist the wind better but for backyard combat, unless you have a really big back yard, 370 fps wouldn't be advisable. For that fps I'd advise a minimum engagement distance of at least fifteen feet. Probably more like twenty.

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Old January 1st, 2009, 22:11   #10
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1. Get proper eye protection ASAP, ESS products (with full eye seal preferably goggles) would fit the bill nicely for about 100$ for three pairs. Paintball masks can also do in a pinch.

2. If you are going to play out of a sanctionned field, consider keeping your guns transparent.

3. Since you travel, don't be tempted into buying guns abroad. Attempting to cross the border with one on your person or having it delivered to your home might land you in legal issues.

4. AV is worth it, there are deals in the 100$ to 300$ braket, just not "real" full metal guns. Most of them will have some or all components clear, others might be used. Still worth looking into imho.
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Old January 1st, 2009, 22:20   #11
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get av also g and g is a cheep clear armlight solution too
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 00:30   #12
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get av also g and g is a cheep clear armlight solution too
To clarify that, in case you didn't understand. G&G (brand) is a good solution for cheap sub $300 guns they are considered "china clones" but are up there in the same league as the "big boys".

Think of the difference between a cheap American car (I mean really cheap like below $10,000), a cheap Import car (around $13,000), and a high end Import car($40,000+). G&G would probably be the cheap Import car.

Armalites are a type of gun (the AR-15 otherwise known to most as the M4/M16).

Any terms you may see and don't know, just ask because some terms used may be really cryptic (such as AR-15, MOLLE, CIRAS, Cansoft, etc.) to those not in the know.
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 01:47   #13
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Originally Posted by cyberdragon View Post
Hey, Fox_111, if you see this, please PM me. I just saw you were online recently and you're one of the guys I was trying to get in touch with for age verification.

Thanks!
Sorry I did not see your post before.

I think you got some good answers.

Si t'as encore des questions, n'hésite pas à me les posers en PM (messages privés).
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 13:25   #14
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I recommend you keep the guns that you are using. For a family backyard / acreage casual play it's fine. I don't think spending money on "better" guns will be economical the higher end guns will shoot at a minimum of 280-370 FPS and you will spend much time or dollars to have a gun doc lower power springs.

I have seen broken finger bones from airsoft at 350fps (.20g) from distances comparable to 'backyard play'; I don't believe backyard play a safe engagement range for almost all of the guns that are readily available on the classifieds and AV seller section.
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 20:24   #15
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Welcome to the sport


The Pulse R72 is actually a nice starter gun for a new young player so I'd say it was a good investment- I have one of these and have given 3 away as gifts to people who do lots of CQB back in Alberta. For about $100-150 in upgrades you could put in a JG metal mechbox and a large battery with a new motor so in terms of a 'kids' gun that can eventually be upgraded it is a good purchase in that regard. It is mostly compatible with TM G3 versions (things like hop-up and mags and such). I wouldnt use it at -15 though as the stock R72 has plastic gears and though they stand up fine in warmer weather they are more prone to break at cold weather temps. The hi-cap mag with my R72 fires about 30 BBs before I need to fully wind it again so yes you need to wind and wind or else get some other midcap mags (I use some 110round G3 mags by King Arms and they work though they need some tweaking to do so perfectly). Best thing about the R72 is that for CQB you fire around 220fps with a .2 bio BB so no one is going to get bloody welts as they learn

The DPMS is also an 'affordable' starter gun but in terms of upgrades and such it is less useful than the R72- the mags are not TM compatible and the receiver is not like most (TM is a company that makes several airsoft guns and in general people look for compatibility so they can repair and upgrade the guns). Its a good starter gun but it wont go very far in terms of upgrades and such. I dont own one but have seen them local and they tend to get dumped pretty fast as the players upgrade to guns that have a longer life to them.

At -15 your batteries will crap out much sooner- we did a day at -10 here and by hour 4 even people with the large batteries were noticing that they were losing power faster than on warm days.

As for the future purchases, if you are going to get into the sport heavy when your sons are of age then it is worth getting AV at some point as you do get a good selection of guns to choose from. If you are going to just stay on the fringe then there are a few Can retailers who have some lower end guns of note (the Kraken is always a fav) but keep in mind that often you get what you pay for and often low end guns need some guntech loving to keep working.
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