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Old December 31st, 2008, 21:18   #1
Reconn3
 
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Age restriction

Hi everyone, I'm new here and need to find out the law regarding an airsoft gun my 12yr old son bought by himself (no adult was with him) at an Army Surplus store here in Vancouver, Canada.

I don't know much at all about them. (I searched the net but didn't find much on age restrictions, etc.)

**The gun is the Cybergun Defender electronic full auto, using the BAXS system. Specs are 320 rds, range 30yd, accuracy is 10/25.

Can anyone tell me if it's legal for my son to own it?

Thanks for you help! :-)

Arlen

Last edited by Reconn3; December 31st, 2008 at 21:21..
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Old January 1st, 2009, 03:45   #2
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Thanks Crunchmeister, Just to make things clear, I didn't give my son consent to buy the gun.
My first impression was that the store should NOT have sold the gun to him. There's even a bright yellow 'WARNING' label on the back clearly stating the gun should not be sold to a minor (U.18) and that I.D. is required prior to the sale.

I'm definitely going to have words with them...

Thanks again.
Arlen
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Old January 1st, 2009, 04:29   #3
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Sorry Reconn3, but the information you've been given thus far are incorrect.

Is this the gun in question?

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=6527845

If it is, please be advised that in Canada, there is no federal statute against selling very low powered, transparent airguns to minors. Most retailers have a policy against selling to minors, and many manufacturers label their products as 18+. However, that is not a matter of criminal law in Canada.

The only minor exception to the above is Ontario, where a provincial bylaw prohibits the sale of imitation firearms by businesses to minors. A very low powered, transparent airgun would indeed be an imitation firearm, subject to such bylaw sanctions. However, since that is an Ontario bylaw and you're in BC, that does not apply to you.

Again, I apologize for any confusion resulting from this thread. And I seriously advise members here to be damned sure their Canadian law, both federal and provincial, is up to scratch before commenting.
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Old January 1st, 2009, 04:54   #4
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Even if the gun your son bought is legal, as a parent, I would not allow my kids to play with such a toy. The plastic BBs they fire are dangerous and require close and constant supervision from an adult to use.

In general, our comunity does not allow people to attend organised event using similar toys if they are not 18 years old and up.

My advise to you would be to remove this toy from your son possession or to permanantly desable it's firing mecanism.
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Old January 1st, 2009, 07:31   #5
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while no your son can't play airsoft

this is how ever a great way for you to spend tme with him as nothing says fauther son time like shooting things it's worth well allot


and ignore fox as they're are parents who's kids use real guns like 12 shot guns in they're supervission and have since they where 8. and heck my GF's 7 year old is learning to play

a realy good book on safe handling of guns is the CFSC course manual acts and prove are the most vital part of it and if you wanna teach your kid properly no is the time to do so

the 18+ in general rule is not hard line it depends also on the location as some place's require people to be 18 for insurance reasons though they're are some that allow 16. this 18 and up rule is because even if you hide fun things from kids they instantly become mature and responsible the instant they turn 18... wait can someone say coalition government of irresponsibility they're what 80 years old each and they whine like children cause they're corporate friends aren't gonna get a bail out cause our government is responsible.

think of it this way they're are worse things he could be doing if he show's an interest in firearms and shooting it's never going away use it as away to spend as much time with him while you are still invincible and can do any thing i missed out on that time with my dad and i regret that every single day enjoy it while you can.

also statistically speaking it's a proven fact that kids who shoot thing with they're father's such as target shooting and hunting are 99x less likely to be involved in crime then kids who's parents go "guns are bad"
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Old January 1st, 2009, 14:09   #6
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What???? Which store if I may ask....

I will not support a store which sells what should be 18+ (no law in BC but they should follow suit with the rest of the retailers in the Province) to a 12 year old without a parent/guardian on the premises.

(Please don't be Daves, Please don't be Daves.....)
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Old January 1st, 2009, 14:19   #7
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It's located on East Broadway between Clark & Commercial Dr.
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Old January 1st, 2009, 14:28   #8
BloodSport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodDrinker View Post
and ignore fox as they're are parents who's kids use real guns like 12 shot guns in they're supervission and have since they where 8. and heck my GF's 7 year old is learning to play
No do not ignore fox, he is one of our communities age verifiers and has had more experience with the dealings regarding the age restrictions in place then most here.

While there are a few clubs across the country with allow 16+ year olds to play it is only with parental consent and in several places parental supervision, the majority of places are 18+ to own and play.

Over all, most stores should not sell anything that resembles a real fire arm to minors, Wal-Mart and Canadian Tire have both implemented 18+ rules and locally I have seen them enforcing it quite strongly at the cash counters.

If you wish to allow your child to keep it then please do it responsibly and only in your supervision till they are old enough.

Should that store have sold what by legal definition in Canadian law a gray area prohibited item, no they should not have.

That is the question asked, should they have sold this item to a 12 year old child with no parental supervision or permission. No.
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Old January 1st, 2009, 16:06   #9
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Are people looking at the link I posted? It's a transparent, super deformed softair device. It is no where near the "grey area" of replica firearm, and in many parts of the world is commonly found in the possession of preteens.

What Reconn3 should do is decide whether he is comfortable with his son having a toy gun that shoots at all, and if so, what sort of supervised play he will permit. Our (airsoft's) legality has no bearing has Reconn3's decision as a parent. Furthermore, I personally recommend against FOX's extreme notion that just because kids using such a device require constant supervision, that Reconn3's son should not be allowed to own one.

Ultimately, Reconn3, it's an issue of:
- Are you comfortable with your son playing with (fully legal) toy guns?
- Can you spend the necessary time with your son to ensure safe, supervised play?
- Can you keep the device secured so that no unsupervised play is possible?
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Old January 1st, 2009, 16:37   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
Are people looking at the link I posted? It's a transparent, super deformed softair device. It is no where near the "grey area" of replica firearm, and in many parts of the world is commonly found in the possession of preteens.
Yes I have and direct quote from that link:
"Warning: You must be 18 or older to order this product.In ordering this product, you certify that that you are at least 18 years old and satisfy your jurisdiction's legal requirements to purchase this product. Walmart.com relies on this representation in completing this sale."

Also directly above the photo of said product it says Must Be 18 Years Old

Pretty sure if there was no legal aspects behind the owning of said product, Wal-Mart will not have wasted their time restricting it.
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Last edited by BloodSport; January 1st, 2009 at 16:41..
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Old January 1st, 2009, 16:41   #11
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That's not what I meant, BloodSport.

The link was only to provide a visual reference to the device in question, to emphasize that it is no where near the legal definition of replica firearm. I don't see how WalMart USA's policy applies to a surplus store in British Columbia, Canada.
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Old January 1st, 2009, 16:44   #12
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Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
That's not what I meant, BloodSport.

The link was only to provide a visual reference to the device in question, to emphasize that it is no where near the legal definition of replica firearm. I don't see how WalMart USA's policy applies to a surplus store in British Columbia, Canada.
True, taked from Canada's Wal-mart section on Airsoft guns:
"
WARNING: SOFT AIR GUNS ARE NOT TOYS. ADULT SUPERVISION REQUIRED. MISUSE OR CARELESS USE MAY CAUSE SERIOUS INJURY PERTICULARLY TO THE EYE. MAY BE DANGEROUS UP TO 100 YARDS. READ ALL INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE USING. THIS SOFT AIR GUN IS INTENDED FOR USE BY THOSE 16 YEARS OF AGE AND OLDER.
"

Same thing, just they lowered it to 16+ and have mentioned said Parental Supervision. Now said legal disclaimer does apply to him. If Wal-Mart Canada's legal department has stepped in and added this clause there is justification in saying the store who sold to his 12year old son with no adult present did break a law.

Especially with all the legal hassels in BC over Airsoft in the past 2 years, this really is not a minor issue. And in the wrong hands could cause even more issues for the sport in general.
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Last edited by BloodSport; January 1st, 2009 at 16:46..
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Old January 1st, 2009, 16:51   #13
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Again, company policy with no legal basis in Canadian firearm law. More for any perceived possibility of liability by WM's lawyers. Instead of quoting WM, I recommend you to read through the entirety Criminal Code, the Firearms Act, and search through all regulations enabled by said statutes and all provincial and territorial bylaw databases for anything contrary to what I've said.

Reconn3 shouldn't let company policy dictate how he raise his kids.
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Old January 1st, 2009, 17:06   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
Again, company policy with no legal basis in Canadian firearm law. More for any perceived possibility of liability by WM's lawyers. Instead of quoting WM, I recommend you to read through the entirety Criminal Code, the Firearms Act, and search through all regulations enabled by said statutes and all provincial and territorial bylaw databases for anything contrary to what I've said.

Reconn3 shouldn't let company policy dictate how he raise his kids.
Well said.
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Old January 1st, 2009, 17:27   #15
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Originally Posted by BloodDrinker View Post
also statistically speaking it's a proven fact that kids who shoot thing with they're father's such as target shooting and hunting are 99x less likely to be involved in crime then kids who's parents go "guns are bad"
Cite your facts.
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